Subsonic Reloading Manual.

[arakboss]

I would like to purchase a reloading manual that strictly deals with subsonic loads for all common pistol and rifle cartridges and with all different types of projectiles. Does this type of reloading manual exist?

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[aasbra]

I haven't found a manual specifically focused on only subsonic loads for rifle and pistol calibers. Most manuals contain some loads which are subsonic for pistols, and maybe a few for certain rifle calibers.

Hodgdon has some data for a few rifle loadings on their website:

https://hodgdonpowderco.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/subsonic-data-final-1.pdf

The Lyman cast bullet manual, or other manuals that include cast loads, or cowboy action loads, are also good resources.

 

[Spitpatch]

I would like to purchase a reloading manual that strictly deals with subsonic loads for all common pistol and rifle cartridges and with all different types of projectiles. Does this type of reloading manual exist?

Congratulations on your finding of gainful employment as a Reloading Book Editor!

 

[oremike]

I''d say a 3 ring binder is what you need. Being sub-sonic is a cute set of buzz words but in reality isn't an absolute. Different guns will shoot different loads differently. A load that is sub-sonic at sea level most likely will break the speed of sound at 5000 feet.

 

[Nosferatu]

Subsonic Reloading Manual: Edition .0001

Stuff the case with Trail Boss. Shove a heavy-for-caliber bullet on top.

Done and done.

 

[arakboss]

Subsonic Reloading Manual: Edition .0001

Stuff the case with Trail Boss. Shove a heavy-for-caliber bullet on top.

Done and done.

Since I started this thread, I scored a couple more containers of Trail Boss in a for primers trade.

I have this idea of making my own heavy for caliber projectiles. There a few ways to do this but the method I thought of this morning is to attach two bullets together with super glue. Different weight bullets could be combined to arrive at the total weight that was desired. I would reserve this method for straight walled or slight tapered cases. Imagine two 158grain bullets attached for a 320ish grain 357mag load.

Duplex bullet loads have been around for ages. Even modern day factory loads are using this technique.

Double Tap makes some double projectile factory rounds.

View: https://youtu.be/eHjOe2KW3mo?feature=shared



As does Hornady for shotguns.




Some double bullet 45/70 action.

View: https://youtu.be/f_iRtFwa1vg?feature=shared


Another method would be to size down slightly larger caliber bullets to fit smaller caliber cases. Think .458 bullets sized down to fit 45acp or 450BM cases.

I like your idea of using Trail Boss powder to fill the space of a case not occupied by the projectile combo. In shorter cases, like 9mm, my fear would be that there might not be enough energy from the Trail Boss to push the projectile combo out of the barrel? I am sure it would work in larger cases though and I will give it a whirl this coming week. I am thinking some 360gr projectiles in a 10mm case might be fun.

 

[red442joe]

I have been loading my 115gr boolit in 380.
Have not chronoed it.

Joe

 

[arakboss]

I have been loading my 115gr boolit in 380.
Have not chronoed it.

Joe

View attachment 1902205

I used 95 grainers for the 380 loads we are taking out today. I might try some 158 grainers for the next batch of 380. I wonder if my wife's 380EZ or my Bersa would stabilize them?

 

[red442joe]

I used 95 grainers for the 380 loads we are taking out today. I might try some 158 grainers for the next batch of 380. I wonder if my wife's 380EZ or my Bersa would stabilize them?

I looked at using the cast 158's I have. Would need a sizing die (in my wish list at Titan Reloading) as they drop at .359 and I don't think they'll swage when seated. Bigger issue is powder capacity at useable COL. There wasn't much, but.....Ima prolly try it before I switch that press to a different caliber.

Joe

 

[RVTECH]

I might try some 158 grainers for the next batch of 380.

Why would you want to load 158 grain bullets in .380?

You will be reducing an already limited powder capacity to even less and running the chance of squibs.

Recommended max bullet weight for .380 has always been like 100 grains if I recall.

 

[oremike]

Data on the Hodgon site lists a 115 as heavy for the 380 with a max velocity of 800-850 fps. If you go up to the mighty 9 you can get the same velocity with 160gr bullets. So I'd say the 158's will barely work in the 9 but won''t work at all in the 380. Bear in mind they have to chamber so no loading long and there has to be room for some gun powder. Even if you found a load that would chamber and go bang will 200 fps clear the barrel? Generally the thought is less than 600 fps and you run the risk of sticking a bullet in the bore.

 

[arakboss]

Why would you want to load 158 grain bullets in .380?

You will be reducing an already limited powder capacity to even less and running the chance of squibs.

Recommended max bullet weight for .380 has always been like 100 grains if I recall.

For fun.

 

[red442joe]

For fun.

I was pushing around a buncha loads and wondered how far I could go...
Mostly a "dota" exercize.

Joe

 

[red442joe]

Why would you want to load 158 grain bullets in .380?

You will be reducing an already limited powder capacity to even less and running the chance of squibs.

Recommended max bullet weight for .380 has always been like 100 grains if I recall.

Or...
He might find a 158gr 380 load that is slow and soft recoiling, and accurate, and consistent, and runs, and is interesting and fun, and is safe....

My 115gr 380's have been soft recoiling, pretty accurate, and reliable in my Kahr CW380, though in my Ruger LCP Pro, accurate, and soft recoiling, but not so reliable.

Or.....
He could spend his time doing something SO much more important to mankind....

Joe

 

[Sporting Systems]

Haven't seen such a manual, and i suspect it would be pretty tricky to put together. If there was such a thing, we would have bought one in heartbeat.

 

[gmerkt]

I would like to purchase a reloading manual that strictly deals with subsonic loads for all common pistol and rifle cartridges and with all different types of projectiles. Does this type of reloading manual exist?

I think this may be where you write your own. From the standpoint of the component manufacturers, it's an off-beat area and has more likelihood for problems. So they probably aren't interested in it to the extent of sanctifying it with actual laboratory data. You have to remember that the research that goes into developing ballistic data is expensive. There is a lot of time (and employee salary) that goes into it. So unless the result sought has a degree of widespread acceptance (.300 BO, for example), there isn't an upside for them.

Aside from the component manufacturers, you'd be looking at something privately published, I'd think. Like those little spiral-bound, cartridge specific booklets. The question would be, is there significant interest in an array of such cartridge loads that would be commercially viable? Meaning, enough interest across a wide range of cartridges to make money on it. Again, there might be some concentration of interest in one or a few cartridges. But enough interest in many cartridges to sell a book?

I'm thinking some people who want to delve into this might do so via one of those ballistic software programs such as QuickLOAD.

 

[gmerkt]

Generally the thought is less than 600 fps and you run the risk of sticking a bullet in the bore.

Yeah, I've fired some experimental loads that got below 600 fps. When I've done this, it's always been with much caution and deliberation.

 

[gmerkt]

Another thing to think about. If you slow a bullet down enough, it's no longer going to serve it's purpose. That is, to penetrate another object. Taken to an extreme, you might wind up with loads that bounce off a thick outer garment. Which I suppose is okay if you are just shooting a paper target. But that doesn't sound like the purpose of a duplex bullet load.

 

[Sporting Systems]

I think this may be where you write your own. From the standpoint of the component manufacturers, it's an off-beat area and has more likelihood for problems. So they probably aren't interested in it to the extent of sanctifying it with actual laboratory data. You have to remember that the research that goes into developing ballistic data is expensive. There is a lot of time (and employee salary) that goes into it. So unless the result sought has a degree of widespread acceptance (.300 BO, for example), there isn't an upside for them.

Aside from the component manufacturers, you'd be looking at something privately published, I'd think. Like those little spiral-bound, cartridge specific booklets. The question would be, is there significant interest in an array of such cartridge loads that would be commercially viable? Meaning, enough interest across a wide range of cartridges to make money on it. Again, there might be some concentration of interest in one or a few cartridges. But enough interest in many cartridges to sell a book?

I'm thinking some people who want to delve into this might do so via one of those ballistic software programs such as QuickLOAD.

We use QuickLoads as one of our development tools. Also looking at powder burns rates, case fill, primer types, designed for pistol or rifle, and projectile performance. We found crazy performance differences from different types of rifling when using subsonic loads. Bullet performance, for HPs is a big change too, with very few having any true expansion at subsonic velocities unless they were naturally subsonic in regular loading (45 ACP fir example). It takes about 203 times as long to develop and test a subsonic load that a "normal" velocity.