Looking for 223 load data for 80gr bullets standard & Sub

[Local Loader]

I thought it had more to do with the ogive of the bullet being too far back into the case and neck tension/setback issues especially in an auto loading platform.

I haven't come across that issue yet but it's still possible.

 

[gmerkt]

There are vendors who make the kind of ammo you might be seeking:

.223 SubSonic : .223 Rem 77gr REX ---EXPANDING SUBSONIC---

.223 Rem 77gr REX ---EXPANDING SUBSONIC--- - SILENT OPERATOR™ REQUIRES 1/7 BARREL TWIST TO PROPERLY STABILIZE BULLET20 Round BoxVelocity: 1010 Fps 16 BarrelMuzzle Energy: 174..223 Rem 77gr REX ---EXPAN

beckammunition.com

Without using an 80 gr. bullet that is typically used for long distance shooting. The bullet shown in the picture doesn't "seat long" and has the low velocity expansion feature. Like the Hornady Sub X bullet which unfortunately isn't made in .223/5.56mm. Probably for a reason, since that cartridge really doesn't lend itself well to low velocity fire yet still cycles the action of typical application weapons. Which is going to be an issue in a short barreled AR intended for defensive use.

Beck does offer sub ammo that cycles AR actions, but in lighter bullet weights. Considering the many aggressive .223/5.56mm bullet designs out there, I'm not sure concentrating on a heavier weight would be necessary. Lehigh Defense being one example.

We were discussing a similar situation in another thread. That is, once velocity falls below a certain point, bullet design fails to achieve its design goals. Here what I mean is, an 80 gr. bullet fired a low velocity may not be optimal for the stated purpose as a defensive round.

Yeah I found similar info to that, not sure why they chose 20" and 24" for an AR-15 given most are 16-18".

Oh you'd be surprised how many 20 inch bbl. AR's are out there. Also, there probably has been some lag time between when those particular data citations were published and the rise in popularity of the shorter bbl. lengths.

 

[Local Loader]

There are vendors who make the kind of ammo you might be seeking:

.223 SubSonic : .223 Rem 77gr REX ---EXPANDING SUBSONIC---

.223 Rem 77gr REX ---EXPANDING SUBSONIC--- - SILENT OPERATOR™ REQUIRES 1/7 BARREL TWIST TO PROPERLY STABILIZE BULLET20 Round BoxVelocity: 1010 Fps 16 BarrelMuzzle Energy: 174..223 Rem 77gr REX ---EXPAN

beckammunition.com

Without using an 80 gr. bullet that is typically used for long distance shooting. The bullet shown in the picture doesn't "seat long" and has the low velocity expansion feature. Like the Hornady Sub X bullet which unfortunately isn't made in .223/5.56mm. Probably for a reason, since that cartridge really doesn't lend itself well to low velocity fire yet still cycles the action of typical application weapons. Which is going to be an issue in a short barreled AR intended for defensive use.

Beck does offer sub ammo that cycles AR actions, but in lighter bullet weights. Considering the many aggressive .223/5.56mm bullet designs out there, I'm not sure concentrating on a heavier weight would be necessary. Lehigh Defense being one example.

We were discussing a similar situation in another thread. That is, once velocity falls below a certain point, bullet design fails to achieve its design goals. Here what I mean is, an 80 gr. bullet fired a low velocity may not be optimal for the stated purpose as a defensive round.


Oh you'd be surprised how many 20 inch bbl. AR's are out there. Also, there probably has been some lag time between when those particular data citations were published and the rise in popularity of the shorter bbl. lengths.

I do know that Hornady make a home defense rounds for 223 but finding it not easy and they look like they are using with sub-x or ftx bullets in them, around 55gr to 62gr weight. My issue is that even at the speeds that those go, you still run the risk of over penetrating the target. That's why I'm trying to develop one that is slower and still gets the job done.

 

[DizzyJ]

Would not a slow moving 80gr bullet also overpenetrate?

Sorry for all the questions, just not seeing this as a good option for the purpose.

 

[Local Loader]

Would not a slow moving 80gr bullet also overpenetrate?

Sorry for all the questions, just not seeing this as a good option for the purpose.

That is possible as well, I've been looking at rapid expansion/low velocity bullets to try to solve that problem. Lowest one found so far is running at 1600fps.
No worries, I welcome the questions, only way we learn.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I do know that Hornady make a home defense rounds for 223 but finding it not easy and they look like they are using with sub-x or ftx bullets in them, around 55gr to 62gr weight. My issue is that even at the speeds that those go, you still run the risk of over penetrating the target. That's why I'm trying to develop one that is slower and still gets the job done.

55gr ball out of not a snubnose penetrates less than a pistol fired 9mm HP.

 

[arakboss]

I'm trying to create some sub rounds or as close to sub as I can get for home defense rounds. Closes load data I've been able to find is the 223 SR and 22 ARC(gas gun) both use the 80gr bullets and have similar charge weights for similar velocities.

This is a perfect example of why we could use a load data book dedicated to sub sonic loads. I would try the heavy bullets over Trail Boss. At some point you should be able to get sub sonic or close to it. Lots of different pistol powders will get you there too but it will take some work. If I ever get a chrono, I will add this type of load challenge to my list.

 

[arakboss]

I'm trying to create some sub rounds or as close to sub as I can get for home defense rounds. Closes load data I've been able to find is the 223 SR and 22 ARC(gas gun) both use the 80gr bullets and have similar charge weights for similar velocities.

Source: https://www.huntingpa.com/threads/anyone-reload-sub-sonic-223-loads.334237/

 

[arakboss]

I'm trying to create some sub rounds or as close to sub as I can get for home defense rounds. Closes load data I've been able to find is the 223 SR and 22 ARC(gas gun) both use the 80gr bullets and have similar charge weights for similar velocities.

I would try this bullet. It's design allows you to seat it deep and fit in magazine. That also allows it to take up more space inside the case which is a good thing for your application. I have these bullets and some Trail Boss. I will give these a try when I get a chrono.

22 Caliber 85gr RDF (500ct)

22cal 85gr RDF

www.nosler.com

 

[Local Loader]

I would try this bullet. It's design allows you to seat it deep and fit in magazine. That also allows it to take up more space inside the case which is a good thing for your application. I have these bullets and some Trail Boss. I will give these a try when I get a chrono.

22 Caliber 85gr RDF (500ct)

22cal 85gr RDF

www.nosler.com

I'll have to look into those as well, I've been looking at the new 22cal 80gr eld-x that came out recently as well.
I've got a chronograph, I just need to find some time to get to the range and to get the bullets.

 

[arakboss]

I'll have to look into those as well, I've been looking at the new 22cal 80gr eld-x that came out recently as well.
I've got a chronograph, I just need to find some time to get to the range and to get the bullets.

The Trail Boss is likely your best bet. Here is a mock up I just did. I put 6 grains of Trail Boss in case. Then I used threaded rod to measure how high the Trail Boss charge sits in the case. That is the bottom of the rod. I placed the 85gr RDF bullet next to rod in a position the bullet would be seated. The difference in length from the bottom of the bullet to the bottom of the threaded rod is the airspace that would be present with 6 grain tb load. My eyes tell me that is less than 30% of the available case volume for powder with that bullet, which is safe.

I will load up a few of these from 5.5 grains to 6.5 grains and see if they blow my face or hands off. If not, that is the direction I would go. I won't be able to give you velocities but I can probably discern whether they make the crack sound or not.

 

[DizzyJ]

I think the problem with pushing a heavy bullet slowly is it's not going to expand. It's just going to poke a small hole.

 

[arakboss]

I think the problem with pushing a heavy bullet slowly is it's not going to expand. It's just going to poke a small hole.

A powdercoated heavy cast projectile would probably be more effective but...

 

[Stomper]

Consider frangible bullets if you're worried about over-penetration.

 

[arakboss]

Consider frangible bullets if you're worried about over-penetration.

That reminds me, I have some frangible bullets somewhere and they are pretty long which would work well for this application. Now if I could only find them...

They are this type.

223 50gr Brown Tip Frangible BLEMS - 1000ct - American Reloading

Blemished Projectiles - May contain: Mixed Lots, Discolored Finish and/or Minor Deformities *Any specific blemishes will be noted and pictured

americanreloading.com

 

[arakboss]

I loaded up 5 with 6 grains of TB and 5 with 6.5 grains of TB. I seated them to about 2.35 OAL. They could probably be seated a little deeper but....
I might have went a little heavy on crimp but since this is a smooth bullet I wanted to make sure the bullet didn't go anywhere until it's fired.

If I can find the frangible bullets I will try some of those as well.

I should be able to try these this coming week but in a carbine not a pistol length barrel.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I think the problem with pushing a heavy bullet slowly is it's not going to expand. It's just going to poke a small hole.

And at pistol velocity.

 

[arakboss]

And at pistol velocity.

I would not want to be on the receiving end of an 80gr bullet going 1050fps and have it tumbling around my innards after making a small hole.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I would not want to be on the receiving end of an 80gr bullet going 1050fps and have it tumbling around my innards after making a small hole.

8 or 8,000 grains is the same if it doesn't tumble.. you'd best pray to the jesus it does.

 

[arakboss]

8 or 8,000 grains is the same if it doesn't tumble.. you'd best pray to the jesus it does.

Personally, I would rather have 124gr HSTs in a carbine but to each their own.