WTH Happened Here?? Brown fuzzy lint in gun powder storage box

[gmerkt]

Must be recently I haven't seen any in stores the Hodgdon and IMR all had same metal lids.

I just checked some of my Hodgdon product containers. They changed from stamped steel to plastic 2014-2015.

 

[edzz]

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send a link of this thread with a description of the issue

 

[GWS]

Well,
I talked to Hogdon (Thanks to @po18guy!) and they said drown the powder and throw it in the garbage.
An so...It's gone. Lucky today was garbage day
but, 14lbs

 

[DizzyJ]

Well,
I talked to Hogdon (Thanks to @po18guy!) and they said drown the powder and throw it in the garbage.
So...It's gone

That's all they had to say?

 

[GWS]

That's all they had to say?

Well they did also suggest I make a line of powder and ignite it to which I said I wasn't going to light off 14 lbs so they said flood each canister and toss them in the garbage
No "Gee, we're sorry."
No "We'll send you a coupon or even "Could you send us some photos'?"

I think I will start looking for a good substitute for BL C2 and Clays

 

[DizzyJ]

Well they did also suggest I make a line of powder and ignite it to whis I said I wasn't going to light off 14 lbs so they said flood each canister and toss them in thr garbage
No "Gee, we're sorry."
No "We'll send you a coupon or even "Could you send us some photos'?"

I think I will start looking for a good substitute for BL C2 and Clays

Damn.

 

[deadeye]

Well they did also suggest I make a line of powder and ignite it to whis I said I wasn't going to light off 14 lbs so they said flood each canister and toss them in thr garbage
No "Gee, we're sorry."
No "We'll send you a coupon or even "Could you send us some photos'?"

I think I will start looking for a good substitute for BL C2 and Clays

Well technically it isn't their fault, you didn't store it properly as far as temperatures go. In the future I would suggest not storing it in the garage if the temperature can not be kept low. No matter the brand of powder they're mostly made the same maybe more or better stabilizers but will all degrade over time especially in high heat environments. I cant store it in my shop due to heat along with other flammables like fuel and various chemicals let alone possible sparks from welding, grinding etc. but I don't reload out there anyway. Even if all of it had been stored in full plastic containers and lids (possibly metal as stated in this instance which degraded and accelerated the degradation) it can still vent gasses (even new cans seals could leak with enough pressure from heat) that can be acidic and volatile and render the powder useless and somewhat dangerous.

 

[GWS]

Well technically it isn't their fault, you didn't store it properly as far as temperatures go. In the future I would suggest not storing it in the garage if the temperature can not be kept low. No matter the brand of powder they're mostly made the same maybe more or better stabilizers but will all degrade over time especially in high heat environments. I cant store it in my shop due to heat along with other flammables like fuel and various chemicals let alone possible sparks from welding, grinding etc. but I don't reload out there anyway. Even if all of it had been stored in full plastic containers and lids (possibly metal as stated in this instance which degraded and accelerated the degradation) it can still vent gasses (even new cans seals could leak with enough pressure from heat) that can be acidic and volatile and render the powder useless and somewhat dangerous.

Well, dear wife is opposed to having explosives and propellants stored within the house so the garage is the only option.
The steel lids were clearly a weak point for Hogdon powder canisters and I will bet serious money that I am not the first person this has happened to. The magazine was supposedly approved for storage in the home and finally, I have a can of Unique that I bought back in 1983 which is still in good shape.
it is my considered opinion that this situation falls into the classification of"bubblegum happens. When I win the lotto, I'll get a climate controlled powder storage facility
Till then the powder stays in the garage

 

[deadeye]

Well, dear wife is opposed to having explosives and propellants stored within the house so the garage is the only option.
The steel lids were clearly a weak point for Hogdon powder canisters and I will bet serious money that I am not the first person this has happened to. The magazine was supposedly approved for storage in the home and finally, I have a can of Unique that I bought back in 1983 which is still in good shape.
it is my considered opinion that this situation falls into the classification of"bubblegum happens. When I win the lotto, I'll get a climate controlled powder storage facility
Till then the powder stays in the garage

Yep I have many older cans that are still fine as well and by cans I mean all metal cans IMR, Win. etc., even have some paperboard (TP roll type) green and red dot Hercules now Alliant. If you are going to keep it in the garage and still use a powder storage bin maybe put a vent or at least pressure type one in it so the heat and gasses can leave the box and not build up.

 

[po18guy]

These are only technically explosives! As a practical matter, they are "flammable solids" of which your house is also built.



Explosives? That would be in the tank of DW's daily driver. Explosives? They would be in the steering wheel and passenger dashboard of the same vehicle; in aerosol deodorant and hairspray cans, mosquito repellent and sun screen. Now that stuff is dangerous. Of course, I go way back to 1976(?) when the original Pyrodex plant in Issaquah did not explode, but rather burnt to the ground in 0.56 seconds.

My favorite Red Green character? Edgar Montrose. Why do you ask???

 

[GWS]

These are only technically explosives! As a practical matter, they are "flammable solids" of which your house is also built.

View attachment 714418

Explosives? That would be in the tank of DW's daily driver. Explosives? They would be in the steering wheel and passenger dashboard of the same vehicle; in aerosol deodorant and hairspray cans, mosquito repellent and sun screen. Now that stuff is dangerous. Of course, I go way back to 1976(?) when the original Pyrodex plant in Issaquah did not explode, but rather burnt to the ground in 0.56 seconds.

My favorite Red Green character? Edgar Montrose. Why do you ask???

You are right, but I was referring specifically to Goex when I said explosives

And DW won't let me keep the car in the house either

 

[po18guy]

You are right, but I was referring specifically to Goex when I said explosives

And DW won't let me keep the car in the house either

Oh, I don't play with that stuff. Too dangerous. I do have a 1lb vintage can of "Issaquah" Pyrodex, and my house has not exploded.

Yet.

 

[Samoht]

I had a variety of gun powder in a Cabela's DOT Approved storage box

View attachment 713217

It held a bunch of Hogdon powder in 1 lb plastic bottles along with a few Alliant 1lb canisters and 1 8lb jug of surplus 4895
The last time I opened the box was unpacking in July 2018 after we finished moving. All was well and I closed it up

I opened it again last week and to my shock, the interior of the container was coated with a brown fuzzy sort of lint. The paint on the inside was peeling in several places with the brown fuzz filling the peeled areas. There was no odor that I could detect. The weirdest part was that every lid on the Hogdon bottles was gone. The styrofoam seal inside the lids held up on many of the bottles but lids had evaporated for lack of a better word. I did find one remnant of a lid on one Hogdon bottle and it looked melted/rotted, There was brown dust/fuzz in a couple of the bottles but the powder beneath it looked good and in bottles where the styrofoam stayed in place, the powder appears fine, it burned well when I put a pile on the ground and ignited it.
The other weird part was that neither the Alliant containers nor the surplus jug were damaged or contaminated. All of the cans of powder in that container were made of plastic The lids on the Alliant and surplus were intact and tight but every damn Hogdon lid was gone, presumably converted to the brown fuzz in that was everywhere in that container.
I reached out to Hogdon and received no reply in the week since I sent it.
We did have a few days over 100 last summer and this was stored in my garage but generally the weather here is mild and seldom over the mid 80s in summer.

So what the hell happened?

I've already fertilized the lawn and garden with a couple pounds of the dusty powder I will be taking The rest of the contaminated cans to the local fire dept. for disposal


View attachment 713105

Look at the walls of the container!

And not a scratch on the Alliant canisters

Dang View attachment 713106

Keep your powder in a cool, dry location. The "dry" part is obvious, but the "cool" part is not. If double-base smokeless powder is kept where it gets too hot, it will start to decompose – and you'll know this because a brown cloud comes out of the jug or jar when you open it. Or in this case, it off gassed when you weren't looking.
I've lost jugs of powder before I got my new air conditioned shop.
I just spread the lost powder on the lawn. Great for returning things like nitrogen to the soil.

 

[The Heretic]

IIRC, some containers for combustibles have a failsafe mechanism. In a fire, when the pressure or temperature inside the container gets to a certain point, the "fuse" opens and the contents spill out. Not sure that is what happened here, or why - just saying.

As for burning the powder and explosions, anyone who has tried to burn modern smokeless powder knows most smokeless powder doesn't burn very easily or quickly in the open atmosphere, it has to be contained to get close to detonation. Unlike black powder.

I have not tried all smokeless, just slower rifle powder. I imagine faster pistol powder, maybe like Trail Boss, burns easier.

If you have the room, I would just use the powder as fertilizer, spread out over an area. After a decent rain it would present no fire danger. That is what I do with old ammo when I wish to dispose of it; I pull the bullet and throw the powder on a wide area, then put a few drops of oil into the case to deactivate the primer, then I crush the case (assuming the case is no longer any good) and throw it away.

 

[Member 34319]

I just checked some of my Hodgdon product containers. They changed from stamped steel to plastic 2014-2015.

Oddly enough, some of the more recent purchased ones had metal lids. I do have two with plastic though.

 

[ajgunner]

Well all 6 of these cans have metal lids and they lasted around 50 years with no problem. In fact when I bought them a few years back, 5 of the 6 were still sealed. I have loaded and fired all of it and every time it went bang.

I do believe that you had something "off" going on inside that box. A chemical engineer could probably sort it out if you had all the evidence and facts.

 

[DizzyJ]

Well all 6 of these cans have metal lids and they lasted around 50 years with no problem. In fact when I bought them a few years back, 5 of the 6 were still sealed. I have loaded and fired all of it and every time it went bang.

I do believe that you had something "off" going on inside that box. A chemical engineer could probably sort it out if you had all the evidence and facts.

View attachment 714639
View attachment 714640

Damn. You probably could have made quite a bit of $$ off those old cans especially with the original powder still sealed!

That's pretty cool though it lasted that long without issue!

 

[DizzyJ]

Oddly enough, some of the more recent purchased ones had metal lids. I do have two with plastic though.

I also have some more "recent" purchase with metal lids. Could be the wear house had them for awhile before I purchased it too I guess.

 

[ajgunner]

Still have the cans. I bought them during the Obumer area when powder supply was low and prices were high. Paid $25 or $30 for all 6. Believe me---I got the value out of them.

The one that was not sealed had been opened by the grandson that found it in grandpas stuff. He opened it to see what scary stuff looked like. Gave me a chance to evaluate it before buying.

I have seen similar cans for sale and some with the seal still in place. Unfortunately they usually have a slot cut or hole punched into the bottom to empty them for shipping purposes.

 

[CLT65]

Did all the powder that you dumped out look the same, or was one can clumpy and/or smelly? I'd speculate that one can went bad, and the acid released from the deteriorating powder consumed all the lids.

I like those vintage metal cans with the pop lids. I have several myself. I used to come across them still full from time to time. If the powder was good I'd use it up and keep the cans. I'd expect that for collecting purposes the cans are worth as much empty, and even then only exceptionally rare ones are worth much at all. There's just too many of them still around. I have some even older ones around here somewhere.