Lost possible stolen and laws

[Koda]

Exactly what I was saying. It's just step one when attempting to trace the firearm to a possible suspect but doesn't implicate the last owner of record without proof.

It may have been lawfully transferred to another without requiring a 4473.

Disagree.
I did not correct my typo in time...

They -ARE- connected to the crime. Doesnt mean they are a suspect, but they are connected.

The law will only care that they didn't report it stolen, which is the law and does make them part of the other crime.
Same for an FFL that allows a strawman to slip thru their cracks.

 

[Nosferatu]

WA has a law that requires a stolen gun to be reported within 24 hours of discovery. If said firearm is used in a crime and was not reported, the last known owner is subject to a $1000 fine.

It appears OR has a similar law on the books:

ORS 166.397 – Reporting loss or theft of firearm

(1)(a) A person who owns, possesses or controls a firearm shall report the loss or theft of the firearm to a law…

oregon.public.law

Intentionally left blank —Ed.

(a)

A person who owns, possesses or controls a firearm shall report the loss or theft of the firearm to a law enforcement agency in the jurisdiction in which the loss or theft occurred as soon as practicable but not later than within 72 hours of the time the person knew or reasonably should have known of the loss or theft.

(b)

If a means of reporting a loss or theft of a firearm within 72 hours is not reasonably available, the person who owned, possessed or controlled the firearm that was lost or stolen must report the loss or theft within 24 hours of the means of reporting becoming available.

(c)

A person may include the serial number of the firearm in a report under this subsection.

(2)

Intentionally left blank —Ed.

(a)

A violation of subsection (1) of this section is a Class B violation.

(b)

Each firearm for which a person does not make the report within the time required by subsection (1) of this section constitutes a separate violation.

(c)

A person who knowingly provides false information in a report required by subsection (1) of this section commits the crime of initiating a false report under ORS 162.375 (Initiating a false report).

(3)

If a lost or stolen firearm is used to injure a person or property and the person who owned, possessed or controlled the firearm at the time of the loss or theft did not report the loss or theft as required by subsection (1) of this section, in an action against the person who owned, possessed or controlled the firearm at the time of the loss or theft to recover damages for the injury, the violation constitutes negligence per se for two years from the expiration of the time limit for reporting or until the loss or theft report is made, whichever occurs sooner. The presumption of negligence may not be overcome by a showing that the person acted reasonably.

(4)

Subsection (3) of this section does not apply if the injury results from a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person.

(5)

Intentionally left blank —Ed.

(a)

Within 24 hours of receiving a report under subsection (1) of this section, a law enforcement agency shall create a record concerning the lost or stolen firearm in the Law Enforcement Data System or another electronic database as determined by the Department of State Police.

(b)

A law enforcement agency is exempt from the obligation described in paragraph (a) of this subsection if the agency is unable to create a record concerning the lost or stolen firearm in the electronic database due to insufficient information.

(c)

The department may adopt rules to carry out the provisions of this subsection. [2021 c.146 §5]

 

[Yarome]

Disagree.
I did not correct my typo in time...

They -ARE- connected to the crime. Doesnt mean they are a suspect, but they are connected.

The law will only care that they didn't report it stolen, which is the law and does make them part of the other crime.
Same for an FFL that allows a strawman to slip thru their cracks.

To clarify, the firearm is connected to the crime but the individual is not.... in any way. Exactly the same as a person isn't connected and can't be charged with a hit and run accident if someone driving your car (loaned/given away/stolen) hit's someone.

Are you maybe thinking about the separate crime... a class B negligence charge... for not reporting it lost or stolen within 72hrs after first noticing it missing? If it was used in the commission of a crime within the statue of limitations (2 years) that is.

That doesn't have anything to do with the crime it was used in though and a person cannot be charged with any part of that crime simply by the fact that they were, at one time, the lawful owner.

To be connected to a crime a person has to have actually committed a crime, assisted in the commission of the crime or had knowledge of a persons intent/plans to commit the crime.

 

[MikeInOr]

The police aren't going to do anything and won't touch your problem with a 10 foot pole, nor should they.

Your course of action is small claims court. A judge will listen to both your story and your nieces story and look at your respective documentation then decide which they believe and rule in that party's favor. This is your proper and only real legal recourse.

If the gun was transferred under your name then report it as stolen. This won't get your gun back. If she tries to sell the gun it might cause your niece a royal headache. If your niece has enough documentation (credit card receipts), a good enough story and enough vengeance filing a falsified (in the eyes of the law) police report could possibly snap back at you and bite you in the butt.

How much was the gun? I think you are best off writing off the cost of the gun and chock it up to a lesson learned.

 

[Flopsweat]

AND correct me if I am wrong but if he knew his brother couldn't pass a BGC then he couldn't even let him have it for the trigger replacement right?

That is exactly my point. We don't know why he was denied, but there's a not insignificant possibility that he was a Prohibited Person. You can transfer a firearm to a direct relative, but not if they are prohibited.

I just remembered that Oregon law now requires the owner to report stolen guns.
If the OP is on the last BGC record, and the person sells the gun to someone without a BGC, who uses it in a crime thats not a good thing for the OP if he never reported it stolen.

(and people still dont believe there is a gun registry...)

Sounds like time for an attorney.

 

[charlie217]

How soon did you give it to your brother after they transferred it to you and how long did he have it?

I had it for a long time he only had it for a repair when he had some health issues

 

[Flopsweat]

I had it for a long time he only had it for a repair when he had some health issues

Was he a prohibited person?

 

[DirectDrive]

The police aren't going to do anything and won't touch your problem with a 10 foot pole, nor should they.

I'm not so sure about that.
If there's a stolen firearm involved, I would think it's incumbent upon them to act on it.

 

[Yarome]

I'm not so sure about that.
If there's a stolen firearm involved, I would think it's incumbent upon them to act on it.

Yeah. A typical stolen firearm where the perp is unknown I think he's right. About all they do is enter the report into the database. The SN might pop someday.

In the OP's case though I think you're right. When the perp is known and they know where to find them, I'm pretty sure they would be compelled to act. The question being... all things considered... do you really want them rooting around in your business asking a bunch of detailed questions(?)

 

[DirectDrive]

Yeah. A typical stolen firearm where the perp is unknown I think he's right. About all they do is enter the report into the database. The SN might pop someday.

In the OP's case though I think you're right. When the perp is known and they know where to find them, I'm pretty sure they would be compelled to act. The question being... all things considered... do you really want them rooting around in your business asking a bunch of detailed questions(?)

If I had something to hide, I wouldn't.
The OP will have to answer that one for himself.

 

[Camelfilter]

OP, report firearm as stolen. Your connection to firearm is done.


Inform niece you did so, or don't. Doesn't matter either way.

 

[MikeInOr]

I'm not so sure about that.
If there's a stolen firearm involved, I would think it's incumbent upon them to act on it.

Cops avoid property disputes amongst family members like the plague! If he has a court order saying he is the owner of the firearm then he might possibly get some action if he pesters the police to death. If he just recites what he put in his original post the cops will take a report then promptly file it! If he pushes it without a court order he will more likely be charged with making a straw purchase than ever seeing the gun again whether the brother was prohibited from purchasing a firearm or not.

It is not the job of the police to settle a dispute when 2 people claim ownership of the same item. That is the job of the courts!

"In the United States, a straw purchaser of a firearm at a federally licensed firearm dealership who lies about the identity of the ultimate possessor of the gun can be charged with making false statements on a federal Firearms Transaction Record, which is a felony."

The brother was the ultimate possessor of the firearm as proven by the fact the OP does not possess the firearm and by his own words hasn't possessed the firearm since it was new. The ultimate possessor of the firearm does NOT have to be a prohibited individual for the purchase to be a straw purchase and a felony.

 

[DunRanull]

Report it stolen and let it go...

 

[bradsteen]

Let. It. Go.

Not worth the headaches, potential legal hassles, etc. Your time and energy (and freedom) are worth more than a rifle. Consider it a lesson learned and move on.

 

[Mikej]

Let. It. Go.

Not worth the headaches, potential legal hassles, etc. Your time and energy (and freedom) are worth more than a rifle. Consider it a lesson learned and move on.

Consider how WEIRD this situation is, THIS ^^seemed like the correct answer from the beginning.

 

[tdemore1743x]

report it stolen and just cut the loss.
Make sure you either go to a local gun store if paying cash or maybe open a bank account before you buy another gun? Just sayin'.
Kinda weird you wouldn't have one to begin with.

 

[Xaevian]

Lots of red herrings in here.

File a claim against the estate and contact the executor. Hopefully it is still in probate.

Generally, write a statement under oath the gun is yours, attach any supporting docs, file with probate court and copy to the executor. Claim deadlines vary by state.