Handholding while fingerprinting??

[Certaindeaf]

There's a special place in hell for petty tyrants.

 

[The Heretic]

Just positive identification of the buyer. Even government issued identification can be forged, finger prints, not so much, yet... Early, pre-caffeine, thoughts...

The fingerprints are not run thru any verification process. They are just record keeping - until such time as they are needed - later. No one, in the current process, verifies that the fingerprints belong to who the buyer says he/she is. The FFL does not submit the prints to anybody or anything, just keeps them in their records.

So no - at this point, the prints do not serve as 'positive identification'. It would take a LOT longer for the prints to serve that purpose during the current process; they would need some method of sending them in and then having the state verify them. It would also be expensive.

So why do it? What possible purpose can the fingerprints serve if they are not used for verification now?

Well, one possible purpose comes to mind; when (not if - when) confiscation begins, there will be court cases. Some defendants will try to say "someone stole my identity" (your forged documents) - a plausible defense in this day and age. The state will say "we have your fingerprints" and blow that defense out of the water.

 

[The Heretic]

There's a special place in hell for petty tyrants.

And a more special place for grand tyrants (politicians).

 

[The Heretic]

FWIW - LEOs roll your prints because at a crime scene a criminal may leave a partial print from any part of their fingers, so having that rolled print serves a purpose. For verification that you bought a gun? A simple pressed thumb print is more tan adequate - no rolling needed. As pointed out already, someone just saw it on TV and thought they needed to do this. Yes - a person that has problems with inadequacy and therefore tries to do whatever they can to control other people.

 

[Ops]

should have asked if you get an acropolis dinner.

 

[pharmseller]

whispering just quiet enough I cant hear what hes saying. Creeper.

P

 

[pharmseller]

If you had just relaxed and not argued with them you maybe in possession of your gun now. For me if it's MY playground it's MY rules. Don't like the way I do things...
I rarely have problems with customers however when I do we usually come to the mutual realisation that if they can't play by MY rules on MY property we will not be doing business in the future. Haven't had to have anyone trespassed yet.
Mutual courtesy will go a long ways.
FWTW I've been printed many times, military, government security, licenses, permits, etc. most times it was the hand holding routine. Over the years I've learned when not to be an...

The customer isn't always right, but the customer is always the customer.

Most service-focused businesses I've seen with your philosophy don't stick around long. Good to hear that you can provide a valuable service.





P

 

[nammac]

The fingerprints are not run thru any verification process. They are just record keeping - until such time as they are needed - later. No one, in the current process, verifies that the fingerprints belong to who the buyer says he/she is. The FFL does not submit the prints to anybody or anything, just keeps them in their records.

So no - at this point, the prints do not serve as 'positive identification'. It would take a LOT longer for the prints to serve that purpose during the current process; they would need some method of sending them in and then having the state verify them. It would also be expensive.

So why do it? What possible purpose can the fingerprints serve if they are not used for verification now?

Well, one possible purpose comes to mind; when (not if - when) confiscation begins, there will be court cases. Some defendants will try to say "someone stole my identity" (your forged documents) - a plausible defense in this day and age. The state will say "we have your fingerprints" and blow that defense out of the water.

I understand there's no print verification done at time of purchase. If ATF ever needs to trace that far back, they have something more than a potentially forged id, that's the only pre-caffeine point I was trying to make. Apologies for lack of clarity in my previous post.

 

[MannyGlocks]

"For me if it's MY playground it's MY rules. Don't like the way I do things.."

Absolutely - Same attitude with MY money...Business money that 'could've' been yours, but with such an arrogant attitude 'will never be'!

 

[osprey]

You're supposed to just kind of go limp and let them do the work.

A dude holding my hand would automatically make me go limp.

 

[Camelfilter]

"For me if it's MY playground it's MY rules. Don't like the way I do things.."

Absolutely - Same attitude with MY money...Business money that 'could've' been yours, but with such an arrogant attitude 'will never be'!

Well, not sure how person to person transfers work in Texas, but in Oregon going thru an FFL is required.

Tigard Pawn, although a "bit quirky", was always inexpensive and convenient when we lived in Salem for meeting folks coming from PDX area.

There's always Northwest Armory Tigard just up the street. They'll be happy to do a transfer for twice as much. Like $50 or somesuch, and take twice as long if there busy.

Cut Above were SUPER PRICKS the first few transfers I had done there, probably why I forgot about them. Less so the last few. IIRC.

 

[jbett98]

Tigard Pawn won't open the package when you ship a firearm shipped to them. They let you do it.
I've seen some rough handling by other FFL's, including a long shallow knife cut on a pristine wood stock that I know wasn't there when the seller shipped the firearm.

 

[nehalemguy]

Back in the day when I used to work at the LGS we would on occasion have buyers who would deliberately smudge prints if we allowed then to do it themselves. They got the hand holding treatment.

P.S........after reading the ORS I see nothing really saying that they have to be good prints.

E

 

[Mister Bisley]

It is of my opinion that pawn shops in general, are sketchy...but apparently, now they are skeezy.

This is why I make the drive out to Banks to see my friend @LuckySG. He only charges $20 for BGC and will only hold your hand if you ask him to.

 

[Joe Link]

I like it

 

[WAYNO]

This could be old school holdout mentality by the LGS.

In the old days(), anybody taking fingerprints answered to somebody above them, and often that person would be critical of the print quality, requiring the fingerprinting to be redone. And this did happen! So...The fingerprinter, being solely responsible for the print quality was taught how to take prints, and it did require mano a mano contact with the person being printed.

If you're an old codger, you may very well remember having this done many times in your lifetime.

With modern technology, even a poor quality print is easily read, so the old school methods are not as necessary. But, old dogs cannot unlearn old tricks.

 

[po18guy]

That is how I was trained and is SOP in the LEAs I am familiar with. Too many print cards are rejected and sent back if the person "rolls their own." Reason? Rotate your fingers as if rolling prints. You automatically start with your right palm facing inward, toward your belly button, correct? Problem with this is that the muscles in your hand and forearm"wind up" tension-wise as you roll your right hand to the left. This often results in a poor set of prints which will be returned for a re-do by the powers that be. The retired Marine Sgt. who taught me stated that you roll your right hand counterclockwise until the muscles are tight. Then, as you roll the prints, the muscles relax, making the process become easier rather than harder. Better prints that way.

 

[CLT65]

Interesting read. Of all the many times I've had my prints taken, never once has anyone tried to touch my hands, that I can recall. Maybe way back when I first got my CHL, but that's been so long ago I can't remember.

There has been a time or two when they didn't like the quality of the prints and had me redo them, but that's no big deal.

 

[Certaindeaf]

And a more special place for grand tyrants (politicians).

They are all petty tyrants in the final analysis

 

[LuckySG]

It is of my opinion that pawn shops in general, are sketchy...but apparently, now they are skeezy.

This is why I make the drive out to Banks to see my friend @LuckySG. He only charges $20 for BGC and will only hold your hand if you ask him to.

Shhh! Don't give away all my secrets!