USMC will expand the use of the M27 and not adopt US Army XM7

[rjmt]

The Marines considered the Army's new XM7, but decided to expand the issue of the battle proven M27 IAW

PM Infantry Weapons undergoing largest modernization effort in decades

Marine Corps Systems Command’s Program Manager for Infantry Weapons has begun a large-scale modernization project to increase the lethality of the infantry squad.

www.marcorsyscom.marines.mil

Read More

 

[Sxsnuf]

Lots of information in a short article. Kind of left my head spinning!
I'm still wondering what makes the m27 superior to the m4. Unless it eliminates the need for a couple guys manning a SAW??
As you might be able to tell, I'm ignorant of the various weapons systems and how they're used to fulfill a specific role on the battlefield.
Wide open to some edumacation from the more learned members here.

 

[Joe13]

Lots of information in a short article. Kind of left my head spinning!
I'm still wondering what makes the m27 superior to the m4. Unless it eliminates the need for a couple guys manning a SAW??
As you might be able to tell, I'm ignorant of the various weapons systems and how they're used to fulfill a specific role on the battlefield.
Wide open to some edumacation from the more learned members here.

From a previous article linked in this new one:

"
Under the terms of the first delivery order, $7.4 million was obligated immediately following contract award to Heckler and Koch in Ashburn, Virginia, for 5,650 M27 rifles, for an average cost of approximately $1,300 per weapon system and support equipment. Until the recent award, procurement integrity laws and regulations have restricted pricing details from disclosure.

The additional M27 IARs will partially replace the current M4 carbine semi-automatic rifle, program officials said.

The M27 IAR is a lightweight, air-cooled, gas piston, shoulder-fired weapon the Marine Corps initially fielded to replace the heavier, belt-fed M249 Squad Automatic Weapon. It currently serves as the automatic fire weapon system in infantry, reconnaissance, and light armored reconnaissance units.

In 2008, the Marine Corps selected H&K to procure 6,500 rifles, following a full and open competition. Fielding of these rifles occurred between 2010 and 2013.

To expand the capability, in February 2017 the Marine Corps released an open Request for Information to determine whether industry could supply comparable IAR capabilities for the entire infantry rifle squad."

 

[ilostmypswrd]

As a former 60 gunner(77-80) and retired US Marine, it make so much sense to replace a FN made belt fed Light Machine Gun, in 5.56, for a mag fed rifle in 5.56, cuz we all know belt fed sucks lololol. Just to be clear I love the Corps, but dang it all, it makes you wonder sum times..Semper Fi.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

As a former 60 gunner(77-80) and retired US Marine, it make so much sense to replace a FN made belt fed Light Machine Gun, in 5.56, for a mag fed rifle in 5.56, cuz we all know belt fed sucks lololol. Just to be clear I love the Corps, but dang it all, it makes you wonder sum times..Semper Fi.

View attachment 1909371

I think all this stuff comes down to how much influence the retired generals who now work for the manufacturers have. It's about $ and politics. The companies compete to hire the generals. The generals work the politics to get their company's weapons adopted.

 

[Stomper]

I think all this stuff comes down to how much influence the retired generals who now work for the manufacturers have. It's about $ and politics. The companies compete to hire the generals. The generals work the politics to get their company's weapons adopted.

^^^This right here! ^^^


Also, don't forget which sitting sub-committee chair, and speaker of the house (directly or indirectly through a spouse) owns IPO stocks for a sweetheart deal.

 

[rjmt]

Lots of information in a short article. Kind of left my head spinning!
I'm still wondering what makes the m27 superior to the m4. Unless it eliminates the need for a couple guys manning a SAW??
As you might be able to tell, I'm ignorant of the various weapons systems and how they're used to fulfill a specific role on the battlefield.
Wide open to some edumacation from the more learned members here.

I built an M27 semi auto clone and researched the buildout of the M27
has a 16" HBAR with mid gas system
piston drive
less maintenance than the M4
accurate rage of 600 yrds
now as for replacing the SAW?
the SAW was heavy and the Marine carrying it could not keep up with the squad when they bounded forward
more accurate than the SAW for accurate spot fire out to 600 yrds
the squad designate auto rifleman could distribute his ammo load among the squad
if the auto rifleman was disabled, any squad member can take up his task without changing weapons
now has a 1x8 LPVO on all M27s
, eliminating the need for a Squad Designated marksman

 

[rjmt]

I think all this stuff comes down to how much influence the retired generals who now work for the manufacturers have. It's about $ and politics. The companies compete to hire the generals. The generals work the politics to get their company's weapons adopted.

it wasn't Generals or a sub committee who encouraged the Marines to go with the M27
they sent one company of Marines to Afghanistan with the M27
the feedback from the Boot Marines who used it were overwhelmingly positive, so they slowly equipped the entire Marine Corp

8 Reasons Why Marines Love The M27 Rifle

From an expert who knows.

nationalinterest.org

 

[ilostmypswrd]

I built an M27 semi auto clone and researched the buildout of the M27
has a 16" HBAR with mid gas system
piston drive
less maintenance than the M4
accurate rage of 600 yrds
now as for replacing the SAW?
the SAW was heavy and the Marine carrying it could not keep up with the squad when they bounded forward
more accurate than the SAW for accurate spot fire out to 600 yrds
the squad designate auto rifleman could distribute his ammo load among the squad
if the auto rifleman was disabled, any squad member can take up his task without changing weapons
now has a 1x8 LPVO on all M27s
, eliminating the need for a Squad Designated marksman

View attachment 1909427 View attachment 1909428 View attachment 1909429

I dont know anything about that, my 60 weighed in at around 24 pounds and I had no issues keep up with my fire team I also carried 1 extra belt of 200 rounds in my ALICE pack and my fire team/and or squad also carried extra belts along with LAWS and claymores, it was never a problem, and MGS are not sniper rifles they are by designed to lay down a huge volume of fire to keep your enemy`s head down and or restrict his advance ,while your fire team/squad/platoon advance on their position. I loved my pig, as long as you keep your ammo belts clean that baby would fire all week long, very easy to keep the action clean, fast barrel swap, and you could or at least I could fix just about anything on it in the field, without having to call in the company armorer.(those guys lololol), Also it is in 7.62 x 51mm, please tell me that the 5.56 is a better round lololol. Carry on

 

[CamoDeafie]

I built an M27 semi auto clone and researched the buildout of the M27
has a 16" HBAR with mid gas system
piston drive
less maintenance than the M4
accurate rage of 600 yrds
now as for replacing the SAW?
the SAW was heavy and the Marine carrying it could not keep up with the squad when they bounded forward
more accurate than the SAW for accurate spot fire out to 600 yrds
the squad designate auto rifleman could distribute his ammo load among the squad
if the auto rifleman was disabled, any squad member can take up his task without changing weapons
now has a 1x8 LPVO on all M27s
, eliminating the need for a Squad Designated marksman

View attachment 1909427 View attachment 1909428 View attachment 1909429

So; which piston drive? Are they available in old school A2 style front sight tower bases?

Seems somewhat a take 3 for this.


Take 1, the Colt LMG


Take 2, the Colt Advanced Combat Rifle (eugh, uglier handguard and funky carry handle on 2nd pic)

Looks like the stock inspired the SOPMOD series of stocks

 

[.45's and .38's]

Is that HK M27 upper on a Anderson lower

 

[rjmt]

So; which piston drive? Are they available in old school A2 style front sight tower bases?

it's an Adams Arms retrofit kit
if you wanted to put one on an A2 front sight, I would buy another barrel

 

[Stomper]

I dont know anything about that, my 60 weighed in at around 24 pounds and I had no issues keep up with my fire team I also carried 1 extra belt of 200 rounds in my ALICE pack and my fire team/and or squad also carried extra belts along with LAWS and claymores, it was never a problem, and MGS are not sniper rifles they are by designed to lay down a huge volume of fire to keep your enemy`s head down and or restrict his advance ,while your fire team/squad/platoon advance on their position. I loved my pig, as long as you keep your ammo belts clean that baby would fire all week long, very easy to keep the action clean, fast barrel swap, and you could or at least I could fix just about anything on it in the field, without having to call in the company armorer.(those guys lololol), Also it is in 7.62 x 51mm, please tell me that the 5.56 is a better round lololol. Carry on

Carried the same kit, in addition to a 1911A1, and 2 cans of ammo in my ruck.

If I could find one and afford it, I would buy one in a heartbeat!

 

[rjmt]

I dont know anything about that, my 60 weighed in at around 24 pounds and I had no issues keep up with my fire team I also carried 1 extra belt of 200 rounds in my ALICE pack and my fire team/and or squad also carried extra belts along with LAWS and claymores, it was never a problem, and MGS are not sniper rifles they are by designed to lay down a huge volume of fire to keep your enemy`s head down and or restrict his advance ,while your fire team/squad/platoon advance on their position. I loved my pig, as long as you keep your ammo belts clean that baby would fire all week long, very easy to keep the action clean, fast barrel swap, and you could or at least I could fix just about anything on it in the field, without having to call in the company armorer.(those guys lololol), Also it is in 7.62 x 51mm, please tell me that the 5.56 is a better round lololol. Carry on

as you stated, "huge volume of fire to keep their heads down"
so why does it matter if it's 7.62 or 5.56?
if you're behind a berm 300 yrds out, does it matter?
I've pulled butts out at 300 yrds and a 5.56 and 7.62 sounded the same to me

 

[rjmt]

https://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Increasing-Small-Arms-Lethality-in-Afghanistan-Taking-Back-the-Infantry-Half-Kilometer.pdf

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Can't speak for M27 or XM7

Never really cared for the M249SAW.

Awkward to carry....the first issue with the plastic drum was too damn noisy with ammo rattling in it.
All too often the clip attaching the drum to the gun would break...
And that would make a God Awful LOUD noise as the drum slid down the linked ammo...and THUNKED on the ground...
Usually on the one and only rock within 100 miles.
Yes...I know about the smaller canvas ammo magazine...didn't care for those either.
And while I get the idea behind a Squad Automatic Rifleman....
I think that full auto fire is often overrated....over used and over thought.

With that said....

Give me an M60 any day of the week.
Always a comfort knowing those were nearby.
Reliable , and easy to shoot and maintain...yep...love the M60.

As for the M16 series...
I am partial to the CAR-15 , M16A2 and M4...all without fancy optics and the like.
Others of course , will differ in their liking.
My likes come from actual use while in the Army...and on combat deployments.
That said...my favorite was my M21...but that is another story....
Andy

 

[ilostmypswrd]

as you stated, "huge volume of fire to keep their heads down"
so why does it matter if it's 7.62 or 5.56?
if you're behind a berm 300 yrds out, does it matter?
I've pulled butts out at 300 yrds and a 5.56 and 7.62 sounded the same to me

Dude if you don't know the difference between a 5.56 or a 7.62 x 51mm then Im not really sure what else I can say, another thing however

Carried the same kit, in addition to a 1911A1, and 2 cans of ammo in my ruck.

If I could find one and afford it, I would buy one in a heartbeat!

View attachment 1909646

I should mention that the PLA current body armor can stop 5.56 but not 7.62 API, at least at a range of 500 yards or greater, at least that is what the Marine Corps taught us, I was hoping this would not turn into a who has the bigger `CHENY` but WTF-EVER, So combat is not like it is in the movies , that's why 1 or 2 Taliban scumbags kept 2 whole company of Marines pinned down for 3 days during Operation Moshtarak,using only 2 old rusty PKM`s (7.62 x 54r) if you stood up or moved you got hit, if they could see any part of you they could hit you, the amount of fire they threw at us was unbelievable, Thats 2 guys with a few helper monkey fetching ammo kept over 300 of us pinned to the deck for over 3 days, the only thing that saved us and allowed us to take back the initiative, was having a lot of the M240B Medium Machine gun, working with our SAWS, plus Air support I guess, and a huge amount of M61/M993 AP ammo, this allowed us to direct our fire through doors and the wood beams that they were using for cover, 5 56 did nothing against it, as well the infanty assult teams could not move and get into a proper firing postion to try and use the M203 again because of the massive amount of enemy fire, coming fron only 2 PKM`s. So in conclution 5 56 good 7.62 better, a 30 round box mag good, 220 round belt of 7.62 way better, oh and close air support ask Andy, he knows. Stomper I also carried a USGI 1911A1 plus 4 mags of 45 ACP just for 2 years after that I got promoted to E-4 and lost my 60 and I think the Corps replced the 1911 in and around 1985 or 86, what a huge POS. I have my Dads USMC M7 Colt 1911 .45 Shoulder Holster Rig that I use to wear into the field until the higher ups pulled me aside and said to knock that bubblegum off lololol, still it was pretty cool. As always carry on..SEMPER FI

 

[ilostmypswrd]

Can't speak for M27 or XM7

Never really cared for the M249SAW.

Awkward to carry....the first issue with the plastic drum was too damn noisy with ammo rattling in it.
All too often the clip attaching the drum to the gun would break...
And that would make a God Awful LOUD noise as the drum slid down the linked ammo...and THUNKED on the ground...
Usually on the one and only rock within 100 miles.
Yes...I know about the smaller canvas ammo magazine...didn't care for those either.
And while I get the idea behind a Squad Automatic Rifleman....
I think that full auto fire is often overrated....over used and over thought.

With that said....

Give me an M60 any day of the week.
Always a comfort knowing those were nearby.
Reliable , and easy to shoot and maintain...yep...love the M60.

As for the M16 series...
I am partial to the CAR-15 , M16A2 and M4...all without fancy optics and the like.
Others of course , will differ in their liking.
My likes come from actual use while in the Army...and on combat deployments.
That said...my favorite was my M21...but that is another story....
Andy

Yeah the plastic drums were lets say not the best, I heard good things about the 100 round nutsacks lolol, I hardly ever saw them in Afghanistan, I think the Corps sent everything to Iraq lololl.

 

[ilostmypswrd]

Carried the same kit, in addition to a 1911A1, and 2 cans of ammo in my ruck.

If I could find one and afford it, I would buy one in a heartbeat!

View attachment 1909646

Yeah you and me both, if I could buy one I would, Im guessing it would melt your credit card with the amount of ammo you would expend in just one afternoon, lololol. Im going to look at my old hdd to find some old pics of me and the sixty from my early days in the Marines there are a couple of pics that are John Wayne super motto, lolololol.

 

[ilostmypswrd]

So; which piston drive? Are they available in old school A2 style front sight tower bases?

Seems somewhat a take 3 for this.


Take 1, the Colt LMG
View attachment 1909573View attachment 1909574

Take 2, the Colt Advanced Combat Rifle (eugh, uglier handguard and funky carry handle on 2nd pic)
View attachment 1909575View attachment 1909576
Looks like the stock inspired the SOPMOD series of stocks

If I had the choice I would take a Stoner 63/ MK 23 in 5.56 but with using it with the M27 link, awesome weapon, but I heard kind of not grunt friendly.