School me on Red dots

[Nosferatu]

Part of this struggle for me is I've been shooting with irons or scopes for a very long time and so I'm used to focusing on the target point of impact and then setting the sights to this point. With the electronic sights I focus on the dot and then look for the point of impact. I know this isn't a very clear explanation but that it part of my confusion. That I have to look for the dot first and then the target is counter-intuitive to me.

You focus through the glass on the target. The dot will appear to be on the same plane as the target.

 

[oremike]

Just buy one and try it they are like $25. You'll find out in about 5 seconds why it's better. You only focus on the target, not the dot.

LOL no I don't and I did buy a cheapo at Bi Mart. it worked in the store but not when I got to the range. Even if I forgot to turn it off it should have lasted more than a half of an hour.

 

[when_DM_smiles]

Part of this struggle for me is I've been shooting with irons or scopes for a very long time and so I'm used to focusing on the target point of impact and then setting the sights to this point. With the electronic sights I focus on the dot and then look for the point of impact. I know this isn't a very clear explanation but that it part of my confusion. That I have to look for the dot first and then the target is counter-intuitive to me.

It's about re-training your current target focus and "seeing through" the dot/reticle. The tricky part is indexing your presentation to have the dot on-glass when you look through. Co-witnessed irons are sometimes helpful as indicators of how close on target you are. If you aren't used to it, especially on a pistol, it'll take time. Also dots sit higher above the bore/barrel so it will initially feel strange. I personally have hard time switching between irons and dot optics for any speed-related pistol presentations. Spent the last year shooting only optic pistols. Can go back to rifle iron sights easier than my pistols.

 

[NeoBlackdog]

What do you guys suggest for a quality sub $300 red dot for ar's? I know $=better, but the wallet isn't that fat..

Save your sheckles and get an EoTech.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

LOL no I don't and I did buy a cheapo at Bi Mart. it worked in the store but not when I got to the range. Even if I forgot to turn it off it should have lasted more than a half of an hour.

I'm sorry you bought the bi-mart junk. The ones i posted and similar are the same as vortex sig bushnell etc etc. all Chinese made from the same components. I've beat the hell out of one for the last 7 years now and it's doing great. So I bought 5 more of the same. Have several of the others I mentioned. None have failed despite rapid fire on 12 gauge and .308. I wouldn't go to war with one but for reg use they rock.

 

[front_sight]

Part of this struggle for me is I've been shooting with irons or scopes for a very long time and so I'm used to focusing on the target point of impact and then setting the sights to this point. With the electronic sights I focus on the dot and then look for the point of impact. I know this isn't a very clear explanation but that it part of my confusion. That I have to look for the dot first and then the target is counter-intuitive to me.

If you shoot enough with the red dot you will eventually transition back to being target focused, and the dot will "automatically" place itself on the target.

If you are wondering how that happens think about what is happening with iron sights. You have to do three things with iron sights; 1. center the front sight in the rear notch, 2. align the top of the front sight with the top of each side of the rear sight, 3. Place all of that on the target at the point you want to hit. All the while your eyes have to shift focus from rear sight to front sight to target, and continually move the point of focus to "check" on your hold. Do you really think about doing all that when you shoot? If you have been shooting for many years, and especially if you shoot the same guns, it kind of happens automatically without much real thought. Your brain and muscles just do it.

With a red dot you only have to do one of those three things - place the dot on the target. And your brain does that automatically when you are focusing on the target. The dot and the target are in the same focal plane so in addition to only doing one thing, your eyes only have to focus on one plane - the target at "infinity".

These are the advantages of a red dot to someone like me with 70 year old eyes.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

If you shoot enough with the red dot you will eventually transition back to being target focused, and the dot will "automatically" place itself on the target.

If you are wondering how that happens think about what is happening with iron sights. You have to do three things with iron sights; 1. center the front sight in the rear notch, 2. align the top of the front sight with the top of each side of the rear sight, 3. Place all of that on the target at the point you want to hit. All the while your eyes have to shift focus from rear sight to front sight to target, and continually move the point of focus to "check" on your hold. Do you really think about doing all that when you shoot? If you have been shooting for many years, and especially if you shoot the same guns, it kind of happens automatically without much real thought. Your brain and muscles just do it.

With a red dot you only have to do one of those three things - place the dot on the target. And your brain does that automatically when you are focusing on the target. The dot and the target are in the same focal plane so in addition to only doing one thing, your eyes only have to focus on one plane - the target at "infinity".

These are the advantages of a red dot to someone like me with 70 year old eyes.

Exactly. And even for young eyes it takes 1/2 second to transition focus. As we age that gets much slower. Red dot the only focus is the target so that slow transition doesn't happen at all. And aging eyes with presbyopia it can be difficult to focus on the sights at all.

 

[front_sight]

The picante sights I've looked at appear to be for AR type rifles and mount way higher than would work for random close range pistol shots.

Your wife will likely love a red dot on her .22. I put a Burris Fastfire 3 on my wife's Ruger. It comes with a picante mount, does everything she needs it to do, and is under $200 delivered. The mount is not so high as to be obnoxious at all, and is super light weight. Absolutely no downside to going this route and tons of upside.

 

[oremike]

Your wife will likely love a red dot on her .22. I put a Burris Fastfire 3 on my wife's Ruger. It comes with a picante mount, does everything she needs it to do, and is under $200 delivered. The mount is not so high as to be obnoxious at all, and is super light weight. Absolutely no downside to going this route and tons of upside.

View attachment 1909090

Cool, finally information I can use. I get it that I have to retrain my grip to eye to aim with the different sights. It's the same when going from buckhorn to peep to a scope. I have to relearn how the hold feels so the sight picture is intuitive for each individual gun. On a side note why I like to look at the target first. One of the things I like to do is Grouse hunt with a 22 pistol. So I see the bird, keep my eye on it, bring the pistol up and shoot it in the head. This is with my Buckmark I've had forever and points very intuitively for me. Looking for the dot and then trying to see the Grouse head in the brush again seems like it would be way harder. Most likely in time with the right sight and gun and hold a different sight might work as well, but how long will the learning process take. I'm 67 already with a Heart condition. I'll put the dot on her gun and shoot it for playing happy can and the like. I'm sure she'll take to it way quicker than this old war horse.

 

[WillametteWill]

Not sure what happened there, deleted double post.

 

[WillametteWill]

Just make sure you don't have an astigmatism, otherwise your dot is a star.

I do have an astigmatism that is corrected by my glasses.

The larger circle, like on Holosuns and some of the newer RMRs, helps this enormously. (I have an astigmatism as well.) Some dots seem to be worse and it seems to be an individual situation (i.e., what is okay for me may not be for you). I find green dots are better for my eyes. The pic rail places the optic up pretty high, all of my centerfire handguns have optics mounted in slide cuts for a more natural presentation.

Having said that, my Mk 4 has a pic rail, with the Burris noted prior, in red, with no circle...all the things I say I don't prefer. But for it's use, it works fine.

 

[Hp503]

I'm thinking of adding a red dot sight to my wifes S&W Victory .22 pistol. It came with a Picante rail so that's how I want to mount it. Back in the day I ran a 2x Nikon scope and others ran an Ultra dot in bullseye competition. So that's my only personal experience. Lately I've shot a couple other peoples guns with a non tube type sight and thought they were pretty neat-o but they all had cut slides for the mounting plates. The picante sights I've looked at appear to be for AR type rifles and mount way higher than would work for random close range pistol shots. Thanks for you help and guidance.

Love my vortex

 

[L84Cabo]

Awww dammit! Now I want chips and salsa! Thanks a lot OP!

Ok, in all serious...and forgive me if you already know this...but acquiring the dot on the draw of a pistol is not the easy process that acquiring the dot on a rifle is. There's a learning curve and it takes time and practice. If the gun is just a range gun, then no worries. But if it is used for self defense, make sure you allot time for coming up to speed on this. Once you put in the time and get this down, then everything is better with red dots in my humble opinion. They're awesome.

Also try to get your wife to look at several red dots before you buy. Dots come in various dot sizes from small to what is considered large by red dot standards. The argument is that bigger dots are easier to acquire but they also can cover up more of the target. Smaller dots allow for greater precision as your distances increase. Small vs. Large is very much a personal preference...hence getting your wife to try a few out first to try and figure out what she likes. Note too that there is an argument for smaller dots if you have astigmatism and may be doing any shooting without glasses...a smaller star burst is less annoying than a larger one. If that makes sense.

Also give some thought to the future. Like if you think the wife unit may one day want to move her .22 red dot onto, say, a 9mm defensive gun, this may be an argument for buying a higher quality red dot now. If all it is ever going to be is a range toy, then you may be just fine with more of a budget red dot.

 

[Tlock]

LOL no I don't and I did buy a cheapo at Bi Mart. it worked in the store but not when I got to the range. Even if I forgot to turn it off it should have lasted more than a half of an hour.

Id recomend holosun

 

[arrowshooter]

You might want to consider the Red Dot mount from Outer Impact. They replace the Pic Rail allowing for the sight to be mounted as low as possible. They are plug-n-play with options to cover most red dot manufacturers.

Red Dot Mount – MRA for Smith & Wesson Victory - Outer Impact Firearms & Motorsports

Want to mount a multitude of Red Dot sights to your Smith & Wesson Victory pistol? The OuterImpact Red Dot Adapter/Mount answers the question! Micro adapter not available for this firearm.

outerimpact.com

 

[oremike]

You might want to consider the Red Dot mount from Outer Impact. They replace the Pic Rail allowing for the sight to be mounted as low as possible. They are plug-n-play with options to cover most red dot manufacturers.

Red Dot Mount – MRA for Smith & Wesson Victory - Outer Impact Firearms & Motorsports

Want to mount a multitude of Red Dot sights to your Smith & Wesson Victory pistol? The OuterImpact Red Dot Adapter/Mount answers the question! Micro adapter not available for this firearm.

outerimpact.com

That looks interesting, thanks.

 

[arrowshooter]

That looks interesting, thanks.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Everyone should buy a ruger readydot because it would please me.

 

[thorborg]

I like the on off switch of the fast fire 2 over the 3. But as far as the usefulness of red dots go, I turned this 22mag into a useable and reliable critter getter from the wild and crazy lucky to hit, usually miss thing it was.

The Leupold pro I put on a 1911 45 is slick, made me a better shooter with it. It turn itself off and on, I replace the battery every couple years though I don't CC it now. Even then the battery is replaceable without removing the sight, without tools and is a standard and economical CR2032. The folks at Brimstone that designed and made the mount for it carry every day, all day long at their work with the same Leupold sight with their batteries lasting a year they claimed. After getting mine I believe it.

 

[oremike]

Rethinking this a bit. Rather than doing something to my wifes gun that she may or may not like (it's a wife thing). I have the original slide that came with my plain jane rock island 38 super. So I could get that slide cut and go with a plate mounted sight. So now my question is what are the buzz words to narrow down the choices to auto on/off replaceable batteries with out removing the sight and different reticles both in color and look?