Lost possible stolen and laws

[Sxsnuf]

Sorry to hear about your brother.
Seems pretty straightforward really. All you gotta do is,,,,,,,,,,,,

Upon further reflection, I got nothin', except to maybe consider what your brother might want you to do?

 

[Koda]

I cant comment if its worth it to pursue in light of family affairs,
but the way I understand the BGC laws if the OP is the person who last passed the 4473 background check then thats legal evidence the gun is his.

This is something Ive understood since the inception of Oregons BGC law that seems widely misunderstood. I'm not a lawyer and could be wrong, but they say "possession is 9/10th of the law" except when there is 1/10th evidence the last person to buy something exists.

 

[Yarome]

....the person who last passed the 4473 background check then thats legal evidence the gun is his.

..."possession is 9/10th of the law

Quite true and it's real simple to go in and request a copy from the FFL that did the transfer. "Technically", how the purchase was funded is a non-issue, but it is a bit in the "gray zone" and the perception is open to interpretation. In today's woke climate I wouldn't feel entirely confident that there wouldn't be consequences. Ultimately, no criminal penalty so much as financial if you end up having to retain an attorney to navigate through any legal issues.

There is also the potential "possession" issue. Even if you prove the firearm was originally yours, what's to stop the niece from claiming it was not handed over temporarily for a trigger job but was given to her father and he had it in his possession for months on end... or even years(?) Of course there is no 4473 to back that up. Brother to brother it isn't required so the absence of one isn't proof that it "wasn't" given to her pop's.

If the niece want's to be a jerk, having a charge for it on her pop's credit card could be used to say it "was" her uncles, but her pop's bought it off him. The CC purchase date would precede the original 4473 and ultimately wouldn't hold water, but it could complicate things and end up costing even more for an attorney to hash that point out.

Having to fork out a couple grand or more in attorney fees, and the general headache involved, over a $1000 firearm (just an example as I have no idea of the value of the rifle)... that seems like more trouble than it's worth.

Cut your losses, save creating more bad blood in the family and chalk it up to a learning experience is one of the options.

Another might be... try and compromise with the niece. Let the sale go through without a fuss, but agree to split the proceeds 50-50 so family peace is preserved and no one walks away feeling completely shafted.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

A few thoughts here...

You can't use reason ...with unreasonable people.

Even if the FFL dealer who sold the firearm thought / said that the sale was legal....
He ain't a lawyer.

You can't control what someone else says or does...

What makes you think that they are going to do a legal transfer If they sell the firearm..?

As for what to do....
Either let it go / write it off...
Or...
Go to a lawyer / court and try and get it back.
Be advised that court / lawyer fees may ( will ) exceed the cost / value of the firearm.

Don't ever "buy" a firearm using the method you did in the OP ever again.
Andy

 

[NeoBlackdog]

Trying to save a situation that can cause a huge family rift

Sounds like you're already way past that.

 

[Yarome]

My worry is not so much the I'm out of money she is an idiot and that's where I see this going bad I haven't even added the part about her loading up all her dads weapons into his car and taking off across state lines none of it secured most likely loaded cause I doubt she knows how to check along with all his equipment to make ammo including all the ingredients to do it but family or not I'm not going to jail for anyone and I think the lawyer idea is the best route at the very least get my name off of it maybe put a little scare into her to do the paperwork and then cut ties if I have too. And the 4473 and all paperwork is in my name I did show her as proof it's about the money she can get out of it all.

You bring up a valid point. For all intents and purposes you were the original owner and any trace would lead to you, but if she does something stupid with it it's easy enough to simply say that you gave it to your brother... and as far as you know... his daughter inherited it. IOW, not your problem (or responsibility).

Now that the rifle is out of your control there isn't really much you can do to force her to do a 4473 transfer, which is the only way you could... to say... "have your name removed from it". That's kind of arbitrary though since your name would still be attached to it as the original owner in the paper trail.

The fact that you gave it to your brother is more true and easier to prove than filing a report and claiming it was lost or stolen. "Stolen" seems to be "he said, she said" at this point, right(?) Especially since it seems that it has been in their possession for quite a lengthy period of time(?)

I guess another lesson learned would be... always maintain control of your firearms. IE., Not handing it over to someone to do a trigger job until they are actually prepared to do the work. Preferably, be present when the work is being done and retake possession. Spit happens.

 

[huntpotter]

What is the value of the rifle? Are we talking about a $300 Savage? Or a $3000 rare collector piece?

That would determine how far you want to push it, and get the law involved. Sometimes it's better to write it off and walk away if it's going to turn into a drawn out court battle. It could end up costing you a lot more than the rifle is worth.

 

[quneur]

I don't know the laws in OR but in WA transfer between family members can be done w/o BGC and w/o a FFL so no paper trail. You could talk to a lawyer and tell them you transferred the rifle which will give you something if anything illegal happens. Or you could call the police to tell them of the transfer then at least you're on record for the transfer.

 

[thorborg]

Riff is already. Likely was festering long before your present woes. Death brings forth the dark side of many, especially siblings. You can stand your ground or walk away but likely not repair it, only cover it up.
When my father died, I chose to walk away and my angst subsided. (But it was my fathers things, not my stuff)

 

[P7M13]

You wrote that your brother had trouble with the background check. You giving him the rifle to service could create a serious problem for you.
Given that you were upgrading the trigger, it's likely that going to an attorney could easily cost you the price of the rifle.
Move on, write off the trash that is your niece and her 'friend'. If either of them had an ounce of integrity, it'd be in your hands.

 

[Dirty-30_lever]

#1- If your brother couldn't pass a background check, you can't legally transfer to him as a family member.
#2 - if your niece is not able to pass a background check then that negates her also of a legal transfer. (If that's the case, an illegal possession of your rifle is now happening.)
#3 - I'd get a lawyer for piece of mind, especially if you have a lot to lose.

 

[RVTECH]

when he went to pick up there was a problem with his back ground check so they transferred it to me

How soon did you give it to your brother after they transferred it to you and how long did he have it?

 

[Certaindeaf]

I'd move to Mexico. There's just too much that could go wrong.

 

[Skully]

But what about the legality of it ? If she does something stupid my name is on it ?

That's the only reason I was not fully against anything. Maybe get her to sign something saying she got it from her brothers estate but then you have 0% chance getting it back ever. Honestly with the gray areas it probably is not worth the trouble but u having orginal 4473 done helps if you go that route. But If you mention anything about his denial and how u tried after your odds go way down.

 

[RVTECH]

That sounds about a hair's breadth away from a straw purchase.

Yep - and potentially for the 'friend' of the daughter considering this part:

funny how the one selling it is being defended by the one buying it

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Whole thing kinda sounds like a shady and screwed up scenario. Whoever signed 4473 verifies in 2 places they aren't transferring for someone else. So was it illegal to begin with I wonder?

Maybe let her know she can't sell it legally or better yet just forget it (unless like someone said above its a $3000 gun).

 

[DirectDrive]

After further review, here's more detail on what I have already suggested....

1) If it's a cheap, budget gun it may be easier to just walk away.
2) I get the sense that you may be on a tight budget and will not be hiring a lawyer.
3) That leaves the law as your only ally in this.
4) To do the following you must have paperwork that proves your ownership of the rifle.

5) Go to your local PD and see if they will help you.
It may only take a phone call from the PD to your niece to get her to surrender the rifle.
If that doesn't work, the PD may advise you to report the rifle as stolen.

 

[DB is Here]

Textbook definition of Fugly, sadly you did it to yourself.

 

[CountryGent]

@charlie217 sorry to hear of the loss of your brother. Hope you and yours find peace this time.

Let me see if I've got this right. Your brother originally tried to purchase the gun but failed the background check. The gun was then purchased in your name. Now that same gun is at your brother's house. Your sister-in-law says the gun is his and was never yours.

That sounds about a hair's breadth away from a straw purchase. My opinion? Cut your losses and cut those people out of your life. They sound like they're bound for prison sooner or later and may well drag you there with them. At the very least, say nothing to Law Enforcement until you've consulted an attorney.

^. This. Considering the potential familial and legal quagmire, cutting losses and walking away is the action that will likely result in the least amount of trouble.

The thing that is concerning, and could necessitate consulting a lawyer, is if the late brother was a prohibited person. The original post is vague on why he didn't complete the background check. If an illegal transfer happened, that could be a problem that is much bigger than inheritance issues.

 

[RVTECH]

If an illegal transfer happened, that could be a problem that is much bigger than inheritance issues.

Yep, especially if the daughter were to say something like, 'Oh, my uncle gave the rifle to my dad' - assuming if the PD were to contact her.

And then there is this part the OP added later:
I haven't even added the part about her loading up all her dads weapons into his car and taking off across state lines

Did the rifle in question go with the rest of 'dads guns' or is it in the hands of the 'friend' ?