Lost possible stolen and laws

[charlie217]

Got a question here folks hoping you can help I have a rifle and my brother was going to change out the trigger for me unfortunately he had some health issues and it didn't happen then he unexpectedly died. His daughter says the gun is nowhere to be found then says it was never mine and is going to sell to a friend who conviently says that I didn't buy it. So here is the issue it was ordered off a website and sent to an FFL. My brother used his credit card cause I didn't have one and I gave him cash he was going to pick up then give to me when he went to pick up there was a problem with his back ground check so they transferred it to me cause I did buy it just not with my credit card I have all paperwork it's mine and dealer knew what had happened said it was legal or otherwise they wouldn't have released they are very reputable and strick anyway these other 2 people 1 his daughter 1 a friend are refusing to give it back funny how the one selling it is being defended by the one buying it other then calling the police do I have any other recourse ? If they do a transfer and it's out of my name do I have any recourse ? Trying to save a situation that can cause a huge family rift too if that's possible but definitely don't want to be liable I trusted my brother I don't trust his kid or friend Any advice for a tuff spot

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[DirectDrive]

If the original transfer (4473) was in your name, the only recourse I can think of is to go to the police and see if they can get the rifle back to you.
Do you have a receipt with the serial number on it ?

Whatever you do, don't get into that goofy story with the police about how you were going about the purchase.
That stinks of a straw purchase (illegal) to the high heavens.
If you blabber about that, you are done......walk away.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Got a question here folks hoping you can help I have a rifle and my brother was going to change out the trigger for me unfortunately he had some health issues and it didn't happen then he unexpectedly died. His daughter says the gun is nowhere to be found then says it was never mine and is going to sell to a friend who conviently says that I didn't buy it. So here is the issue it was ordered off a website and sent to an FFL. My brother used his credit card cause I didn't have one and I gave him cash he was going to pick up then give to me when he went to pick up there was a problem with his back ground check so they transferred it to me cause I did buy it just not with my credit card I have all paperwork it's mine and dealer knew what had happened said it was legal or otherwise they wouldn't have released they are very reputable and strick anyway these other 2 people 1 his daughter 1 a friend are refusing to give it back funny how the one selling it is being defended by the one buying it other then calling the police do I have any other recourse ? If they do a transfer and it's out of my name do I have any recourse ? Trying to save a situation that can cause a huge family rift too if that's possible but definitely don't want to be liable I trusted my brother I don't trust his kid or friend Any advice for a tuff spot

You are worried about creating a rift with such people?

 

[Nosferatu]

So your rifle was stolen by your Niece?

Call cops. File report. Leave out the gobbly-gook about the potential straw purchase.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

So your rifle was stolen by your Niece?

Call cops. File report. Leave out the gobbly-gook about the potential straw purchase.

THIS! And maybe pay a lawyer to talk to the cops for you, because reading that makes me feel that the cops might take a "Lock'um all up let a judge sort them out" approach to the whole thing

 

[Nosferatu]

THIS! And maybe pay a lawyer to talk to the cops for you, because reading that makes me feel that the cops might take a "Lock'um all up let a judge sort them out" approach to the whole thing

I was going to suggest having someone who's taken at least a HS English class help him, but a lawyer might work just as well!

 

[WestcoastWes]

Call, Lawyer, Call Cops, burn the bastids down. Worst case they can use it in a crime and then the victim can sue you. This is one of the many reasons we get all the bubblegum as gun owners. Cause that rift, stay away from them or you might find yourself without your 2A Rights. Crazy women have taken down many a gun owner. (PS I don't want to sound misogynistic here)

 

[Yarome]

I wouldn't touch that with authorities! What you decide not to tell them, or even insulating yourself with an attorney, doesn't stop your niece from telling her side of the story... including what claims you already made to her.

I'm the type that believes the cost of a firearm isn't worth bad blood in the family, though. Property comes and goes, but you're stuck with your family for life. I don't know your niece, but if she's typically a pretty upstanding person, you have to consider that she may honestly believe her father was the original purchaser. If her pop's passing was recent, her current state of mind might also not be on real solid ground at the moment(?)

So long as the new purchase/transfer goes through an FFL then you have no liability exposure. It's "his" now. If I had a decent relationship with my niece I would just have a talk and ask for a copy of the bill of sale (from her to him). It's no skin off her nose to provide you with a copy and it further protects you if the transfer ever comes into question. Although it's not necessary for you to have a copy, it may give you a little peace of mind to have that added "protection".

IE., The story goes... "I gave it to my niece and she sold it. Here's the proof." A BGC and/or bill of sale isn't required to give it to your niece and she legally transferred it to another. End of story.

On the flip side, you could file a lost/stolen report with LE, but there exists the risk it could jam you up, jam your niece up as well as the previous FFL and the new purchaser.

Only you can decide if the cost of the rifle is worth that to you or not, but I would ask myself... if my niece was in a financial bind and asked for my help... would I have given it to her? Willingly being out of pocket for family and this situation is different. I get it's a little harder to swallow, but in the end... money is just money and blood is blood, IMHO.

 

[charlie217]

If the original transfer (4473) was in your name, the only recourse I can think of is to go to the police and see if they can get the rifle back to you.
Do you have a receipt with the serial number on it ?

Whatever you do, don't get into that goofy story with the police about how you were going about the purchase.
That stinks of a straw purchase (illegal) to the high heavens.
If you blabber about that, you are done......walk

I wouldn't touch that with authorities! What you decide not to tell them doesn't stop your niece from telling her side of the story, including what claims you made to her.

I'm also the type that the cost of a firearm isn't worth bad blood in the family. Property comes and goes, but you're stuck with your family for life. I don't know your niece, but if she's typically a pretty upstanding person, you have to consider that she may honestly believe her father was the original purchaser. If her pop's passing was recent, her current state of mind might also not be on real solid ground at the moment(?)

So long as the new purchase/transfer goes through an FFL then you have no liability exposure. It's "his" now. If I had a decent relationship with my niece I would just have a talk and ask for a copy of the bill of sale (from her to him). It's no skin off her nose to provide you with a copy and it further protects you if the transfer ever comes into question. Although it's not necessary for you to have a copy, it may give you a little peace of mind to have that added "protection".

IE., The story goes... "I gave it to my niece and she sold it. Here's the proof." A BGC and/or bill of sale isn't required to give it to your niece and she legally transferred it to another. End of story.

On the flip side, you could file a lost/stolen report with LE, but there exists the risk it could jam you up, jam your niece up as well as the previous FFL and the new purchaser.

Only you can decide if the cost of the rifle is worth that to you or not, but I would ask myself... if my niece was in a financial bind and asked for my help... would I have given it to her? Willingly being out of pocket for family and this situation is different. I get it's a little harder to swallow, but in the end... money is just money and blood is blood, IMHO.

My worry is not so much the I'm out of money she is an idiot and that's where I see this going bad I haven't even added the part about her loading up all her dads weapons into his car and taking off across state lines none of it secured most likely loaded cause I doubt she knows how to check along with all his equipment to make ammo including all the ingredients to do it but family or not I'm not going to jail for anyone and I think the lawyer idea is the best route at the very least get my name off of it maybe put a little scare into her to do the paperwork and then cut ties if I have too. And the 4473 and all paperwork is in my name I did show her as proof it's about the money she can get out of it all.

 

[Flopsweat]

Let me see if I've got this right. Your brother originally tried to purchase the gun but failed the background check. The gun was then purchased in your name. Now that same gun is at your brother's house. Your sister-in-law says the gun is his and was never yours.

That sounds about a hair's breadth away from a straw purchase. My opinion? Cut your losses and cut those people out of your life. They sound like they're bound for prison sooner or later and may well drag you there with them. At the very least, say nothing to Law Enforcement until you've consulted an attorney.

 

[HA556]

At the very least, say nothing to Law Enforcement until you've consulted an attorney.

I'm pretty sure there are LEO's that are members here. Maybe even in his area. I don't give advice on these kinds of threads because you never know who is reading it. Anyway, I feel a range day is coming.

 

[FATAL125]

 

[TTSX]

 

[charlie217]

Let me see if I've got this right. Your brother originally tried to purchase the gun but failed the background check. The gun was then purchased in your name. Now that same gun is at your brother's house. Your sister-in-law says the gun is his and was never yours.

That sounds about a hair's breadth away from a straw purchase. My opinion? Cut your losses and cut those people out of your life. They sound like they're bound for prison sooner or later and may well drag you there with them. At the very least, say nothing to Law Enforcement until you've consulted an

I'm pretty sure there are LEO's that are members here. Maybe even in his area. I don't give advice on these kinds of threads because you never know who is reading it. Anyway, I feel a range day is coming.

Think you are right a lawyer is needed but again we did call several FFl's all said the same between siblings is ok but not anyone of non close relation otherwise they wouldn't have handled the paperwork and transfers only thing in his name would be a credit card purchase that at worst case it qualified as a gift to me

 

[charlie217]

Let me see if I've got this right. Your brother originally tried to purchase the gun but failed the background check. The gun was then purchased in your name. Now that same gun is at your brother's house. Your sister-in-law says the gun is his and was never yours.

That sounds about a hair's breadth away from a straw purchase. My opinion? Cut your losses and cut those people out of your life. They sound like they're bound for prison sooner or later and may well drag you there with them. At the very least, say nothing to Law Enforcement until you've consulted an attorney.

Kinda why I came here too we did call several FFL dealers and were upfront all said the same thing it could be considered a gift between siblings and if you pay for your gift that's on you I know it does sound weird but neither one of us wanted to bring trouble on ourselves when we did this if we had gotten an ounce of could be trouble we would have never gone thru with it plus all would be ok if he hadn't been doing a repair for me and no one expects someone to pass young and unexpected

 

[po18guy]

The 4473 shows you own it. Credit card receipt will show he owns it. The other side will say it was your brother's gun and now you are trying to steal it. Think you'd better eat this one.

 

[Skully]

4473 should trump other stuff. I'm certain people have paid for people's guns online as gifts but I would be very minimal with what you say as it can be used against you. There's a rift in my family from firearms after a death of a family member (in fairness its a grudge I kinda hold but long story not relevant) that stuff happens with estates. That said if the rifle is under 1k it ain't worth the hassle just blacklist that family member from now on

 

[Flopsweat]

4473 should trump other stuff. I'm certain people have paid for people's guns online as gifts but I would be very minimal with what you say as it can be used against you. There's a rift in my family from firearms after a death of a family member (in fairness its a grudge I kinda hold but long story not relevant) that stuff happens with estates. That said if the rifle is under 1k it ain't worth the hassle just blacklist that family member from now on

You can be careful what you say, but you have no control over what the thieving daughter in law will say.

 

[Dozer99]

Pole, ten foot, not touch will I.

 

[charlie217]

4473 should trump other stuff. I'm certain people have paid for people's guns online as gifts but I would be very minimal with what you say as it can be used against you. There's a rift in my family from firearms after a death of a family member (in fairness its a grudge I kinda hold but long story not relevant) that stuff happens with estates. That said if the rifle is under 1k it ain't worth the hassle just blacklist that family member from now on

But what about the legality of it ? If she does something stupid my name is on it ?