Gratification: Instant, Delayed, Denied....

[lucusloc]

As for delaying purchases that should be considered as something else besides delaying gratification

That is called "financial responsibility" and it is an entirely independent concept to gratification. To the extent they have any relationship at all one can conflate the acquisition of a desired item through a purchase as "gratification," but that is only looking at the short term impact on gratification, not any long term impacts. Someone who spend frivolously may gain many short term gratifications, but will incur much long term strife. They have jeopardized their financial stability for "instantaneous gratification", and have forgone long term and stable gratification that comes from good financial planning.

You initial example neglects this aspect of the equation, for in each of your examples the money is spent and gone. If there was an example where that money was not spent, but instead put into a high yield asset, there could be an example where the fruits of that investment afford our hypothetical person enough financial stability that they could purchase a cookie a day in perpetuity. That could be said to be "delaying gratification" for the promise of more gratification at a later date. How you feel about that tradeoff, in a philosophical sense, can be directly tied to your faith in the possibility that you will be around to experience that payoff. But that does not invalidate the concept of "delayed gratification" itself, because in financial terms it really does mean "not spending now so you will have more to spend in the future" and this is a cornerstone principle in long term financial planning.

 

[arakboss]

That is called "financial responsibility" and it is an entirely independent concept to gratification. To the extent they have any relationship at all one can conflate the acquisition of a desired item through a purchase as "gratification," but that is only looking at the short term impact on gratification, not any long term impacts. Someone who spend frivolously may gain many short term gratifications, but will incur much long term strife. They have jeopardized their financial stability for "instantaneous gratification", and have forgone long term and stable gratification that comes from good financial planning.

You initial example neglects this aspect of the equation, for in each of your examples the money is spent and gone. If there was an example where that money was not spent, but instead put into a high yield asset, there could be an example where the fruits of that investment afford our hypothetical person enough financial stability that they could purchase a cookie a day in perpetuity. That could be said to be "delaying gratification" for the promise of more gratification at a later date. How you feel about that tradeoff, in a philosophical sense, can be directly tied to your faith in the possibility that you will be around to experience that payoff. But that does not invalidate the concept of "delayed gratification" itself, because in financial terms it really does mean "not spending now so you will have more to spend in the future" and this is a cornerstone principle in long term financial planning.

If you rely on money or investing for gratification in life that could create it's own problems. In its most basic form gratification is happiness, you can delay the happiness for a later date or enjoy happiness all of your life.

 

[arakboss]

A father could work one job and take his kids on frequent low cost outings throughout their childhood. He would feel a sense of gratification during and after each outing and likely so would his kids.

Or he could delay his and their gratification by skipping those outings and working two jobs while promising a long trip to Europe when they graduate.

 

[nammac]

Gratification is best defined for one's own self.
Just don't abuse self gratification or you will go blind....damn this key board and screen are difficult to see....
Andy

Ah, Confucius say, "he who self gratifies, feel cocky"

 

[lucusloc]

If you rely on money or investing for gratification in life that could create it's own problems. In its most basic form gratification is happiness, you can delay the happiness for a later date or enjoy happiness all of your life.

Right, but in your primary example cookies cost money. So if you equate cookies with gratification (happiness) then you have indirectly conflated happiness with money. As long as the thing that makes you happy costs money this will be the case. It is only when we get into the things that do not cost money that we can break that conflation and move onto gratification as a distinct concept. You cannot put off family bonding now for the promise of more family bonding later. You cannot put off the intangible joy of watching a sunset today for the promise of watching two sunsets tomorrow. Those are the types of gratification that cannot really be "delayed", they are just lost. So we have to be very careful what we are saying brings us joy, both philosophically and in daily practice. If we place all of our joy in things that have a monetary value we will forever be chasing money as our primary source of happiness, whereas if we find our joy in the intangible and transient state of being (and the closely related concept of interaction with other beings), then joy can be had in abundance and at all times.

 

[arakboss]

Right, but in your primary example cookies cost money. So if you equate cookies with gratification (happiness) then you have indirectly conflated happiness with money. As long as the thing that makes you happy costs money this will be the case. It is only when we get into the things that do not cost money that we can break that conflation and move onto gratification as a distinct concept. You cannot put off family bonding now for the promise of more family bonding later. You cannot put off the intangible joy of watching a sunset today for the promise of watching two sunsets tomorrow. Those are the types of gratification that cannot really be "delayed", they are just lost. So we have to be very careful what we are saying brings us joy, both philosophically and in daily practice. If we place all of our joy in things that have a monetary value we will forever be chasing money as our primary source of happiness, whereas if we find our joy in the intangible and transient state of being (and the closely related concept of interaction with other beings), then joy can be had in abundance and at all times.

You get it. That was my point from the beginning that the delayed gratification gurus are really talking about putting off or denying purchases. It's almost if it's an anti-consumerism movement disguised as mental health improvement technique.

 

[arakboss]

A person could delay the gratification from their morning coffee and have it right before bed. Would it provide them with greater gratification?

 

[arakboss]

Right, but in your primary example cookies cost money. So if you equate cookies with gratification (happiness) then you have indirectly conflated happiness with money. As long as the thing that makes you happy costs money this will be the case. It is only when we get into the things that do not cost money that we can break that conflation and move onto gratification as a distinct concept. You cannot put off family bonding now for the promise of more family bonding later. You cannot put off the intangible joy of watching a sunset today for the promise of watching two sunsets tomorrow. Those are the types of gratification that cannot really be "delayed", they are just lost. So we have to be very careful what we are saying brings us joy, both philosophically and in daily practice. If we place all of our joy in things that have a monetary value we will forever be chasing money as our primary source of happiness, whereas if we find our joy in the intangible and transient state of being (and the closely related concept of interaction with other beings), then joy can be had in abundance and at all times.

The same idea could apply to those who work hard all their lives and delay vacationing until after they retire. What happens if they experience serious health declines and can't do the vacationing they planned. Enjoying your youth is another thing that will be lost if you delay it.

 

[arakboss]

Some people enjoy getting gratification from spending near $100 for a decent meal out and a few drinks.

Others (like myself) would get more gratification from spending an equal amount of money on a Colt SAA.

I would imagine in most cases purchasing a gun would give a person longer lasting gratification than spending equal sums on food or drinks.

 

[arakboss]

Here is one YT Delayed Gratification guru who believes that denying himself from ever sleeping in and warm showers will one day lead to great happiness, when he finally does sleep in and takes a warm shower. Note he is also denying himself from breathing fresh air.

View: https://youtu.be/HfubTWPBKTI?feature=shared



To the casual observer (of which I am one), delayed gratification means suffer now so you can be happy later. To that I will in most cases say, no thanks.


If their theory was correct, the people who experience frequent gratification would have a baseline happiness level near zero.

 

[arakboss]

To be fair I should look at this from the delayed gratification gurus side. I have my DGG hat on now.


Friend: I get a lot of gratification from completing a workout.

Me: you would get a lot more gratification and higher baseline of happiness if you delayed those workouts for a few years.

Friend: we are getting married and heading off for our honeymoon next week, I can't wait for our honeymoon night. This two years of abstinence has been killing me.

Me: you know if you continue the abstinence until your 5th anniversary, it will be much more enjoyable and gratifying.


Friend: I find it very gratifying to contribute my annual bonus to my 401k.

Me: I think you would get a greater level of satisfaction and gratification if you donated that money to the homeless in Portland and waited before making any more contributions. The best results come to those who wait.

 

[arakboss]

I can understand why people who make their living off selling consumer goods would not be fans of their customers practicing delayed gratification on purchases.

I was negotiating the sale of a Winchester 1876 rifle recently at the shop. We couldn't arrive at a selling price that was within my limit of discounting. I suggested that he come back when the boss was working and that he might be able to get a better deal. He came back the following week and got a couple hundred more off than I could do. I don't get commissions and I felt more gratification than I had if I had made the sale myself for a higher price.

I like good deals for myself but I also like to see others get good deals.

 

[nammac]

At my age I'm not delaying any gratification's that don't need delaying. Don't know how many more gratifications I've got left…



Ohhhh Misssssusss nammac!!!!!!!

 

[lucusloc]

A person could delay the gratification from their morning coffee and have it right before bed. Would it provide them with greater gratification?

Sounds like you already have the coffee, so there is no possibility of getting more coffee later if you forgo now. At that point the question is "will I get more enjoyment from the coffee now, or is there some future time where I could enjoy the coffee itself more later?" (disregarding issues with stale/cold coffee etc.) Maybe you will get some crumb cake later, and you would get far more enjoyment from consuming them together rather than separately. Or maybe we do consider factors like staleness and the obvious answer is to consume it fresh. When you are considering ways to maximize enjoyments the factors are legion, and there may not be a clear cut answer. Maybe the stress of it all is just not worth the effort?

The same idea could apply to those who work hard all their lives and delay vacationing until after they retire. What happens if they experience serious health declines and can't do the vacationing they planned. Enjoying your youth is another thing that will be lost if you delay it.

Yes, the probablity of payoff is always part of the equation. If you are diagnosed with a terminal illness and have only one year of good(ish) health left, maybe putting off that trip til next year is not such a great idea.

Some people enjoy getting gratification from spending near $100 for a decent meal out and a few drinks.

Others (like myself) would get more gratification from spending an equal amount of money on a Colt SAA.

I would imagine in most cases purchasing a gun would give a person longer lasting gratification than spending equal sums on food or drinks.

If we are talking about items with monetary value again, durable goods are a better long term investment. But if they are not the kinds of things that bring you greatest joy then I guess you are SOL and just need to commit to spending as needed. This is the exact situation were delaying gratification can pay off in the long run. You save and invest today so you can buy more of those transient goods tomorrow.

Here is one YT Delayed Gratification guru who believes that denying himself from ever sleeping in and warm showers will one day lead to great happiness, when he finally does sleep in and takes a warm shower. Note he is also denying himself from breathing fresh air.

View: https://youtu.be/HfubTWPBKTI?feature=shared



To the casual observer (of which I am one), delayed gratification means suffer now so you can be happy later. To that I will in most cases say, no thanks.


If their theory was correct, the people who experience frequent gratification would have a baseline happiness level near zero.

View attachment 1879102

I sort of get what that guy is saying, but I reject the final conclusion. Yes, if you are sleep deprived then finally getting to sleep feels wonderful. But I am not sure it is comparable to sleeping well on a regular basis. To me that is comparing apples and oranges. One is a healthy choice and general best practice the other is a consequence of doing something else taking priority and you simply doing what is needed to accomplish some other unrelated goal. They can both be equally satisfying for different reasons. But if someone does prefer the one feeling over the other then knock yourself out, just do not make the mistake of thinking everyone else operates in the same way. Some people will get better satisfaction from healthy sleeping choices, and that kind of good decision making cannot be discounted.

 

[Camelfilter]

Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea.
Joy to you and me!

Is literally playing ATM at the dentist…

 

[Cavedweller]

I understand this to mean that if I wait 15mins to buy a gun and I can order two. I'm pretty sure I can do that.

Others (like myself) would get more gratification from spending an equal amount of money on a Colt SAA.
I would imagine in most cases purchasing a gun would give a person longer lasting gratification than spending equal sums on food or drinks.

Have you ever thought about what is it you find gratifying? Is it the gun or the purchasing? I suspect it is the purchasing. If you got gratification from owning the gun, you wouldn't need to be continually buying. Rather, you would be out enjoying the gun.

Sounds like you are less of a firearms enthusiast and more of a compulsive spender who happens to have a gun hobby.

It's about engagment. It keeps the forum world running.

You must find it gratifying.

A person could delay the gratification from their morning coffee and have it right before bed. Would it provide them with greater gratification?

Delaying gratification doesn't necessarily increase the amount of gratification. What it does is relieve the individual of the harmful effects of seeking instant gratification. Delaying a purchase, for example, until one has saved enough money rather than making it on credit, relieves the individual of the burden of interest payments, the worry that may be caused by debt, the need for a second job to meet expenses, and potential conflicts with a spouse over spending habits.

Some people find sleep gratifying.

 

[gmerkt]

Denied gratification

One definition, you buy a gun on Gun Broker. You wait for the buyer to ship it. Then you wait while it is in transit. Then it arrives at your FFL dealer, you go up and fill out the paperwork, then you go away for ten working days and wait for them to call you when it's ready for pick up. By the time all that has occurred, I've almost lost interest in the thing.

 

[TTSX]

One definition, you buy a gun on Gun Broker. You wait for the buyer to ship it. Then you wait while it is in transit. Then it arrives at your FFL dealer, you go up and fill out the paperwork, then you go away for ten working days and wait for them to call you when it's ready for pick up. By the time all that has occurred, I've almost lost interest in the thing.

I'm refreshing my tracking number page every hour or so impatiently waiting for a gun I got off GunBroker. 2nd day air, my bubblegum. It's already the second day and only at the distribution center. Lame.

 

[TTSX]

Do you ever think about making a thread, then just.... You know... Don't? You could delay your gratification to the next time you have a weird thread idea... And then delay it again... And keep delaying. Imagine the gratification when you finally get that dopamine release in 100 weird ideas

 

[Jay Walk]

"Waiting" then buying something when you can actually afford it is most gratifying.

Purchased a case of motorcycle oil for $200 and a pizza for $45, both in the last seven days.
These are splurges in our household but not a bother since we don't have to wonder if the card will get paid off on the 15th.

Took our son out for a nice dinner tonight, then filled his Silverado up with gas for him.
He doesn't need us for that but it's way more fun to give than just BUY BUY BUY.

My brother gave his son a hand me down f250 v-10, mint with 50,000 miles on the clock.
Why? because he could.