National Federal Gov Records on Nearly 1 Billion Gun Sales

[The Heretic]

 

[Rkangel]

And now you know why many blue states, including Oregon, passed universal background checks for private party sales....
Gee, I wonder why Shmuck Schumer is begging for $1.5 billion for the AFT...

 

[titsonritz]

Considering there are 393 million privately owned guns in the USA, that's a lot of resale of the same guns to get up to nearly 1 billion sales, (which do not account for private handshake deals).

 

[gmerkt]

In other words, for the first time in human history it is technically possible for a determined entity to identify nearly every person who bought any firearm

One other thing. I've mentioned this before on another thread. I got a call from a police dept. in northern California a few years ago. They were calling about a gun that I'd bought through an FFL dealer in the 1980's. So once these things are on the books, they never go away.

 

[oremike]

This is not new, Plenty of reports of ATF knocking on doors and handing US citizens a detailed list of Guns for you to surrender.

I have never thought my stuff was not registered.

When the jack-booted thugs come a knockn' they aren't going to just collect the guns on your list, they will take all they can find.

 

[The Heretic]

One other thing. I've mentioned this before on another thread. I got a call from a police dept. in northern California a few years ago. They were calling about a gun that I'd bought through an FFL dealer in the 1980's. So once these things are on the books, they never go away.

The ATF does a backtrace if a gun is involved in a crime, so at least the person who bought it from an FFL the first time is going to be on a record somewhere - unless the FFL "lost" his records, or the gun was bought new before 1968.

 

[bradsteen]

...unless the FFL "lost" his records...

Kinda makes me wonder if any FFLs will suddenly get in boating accidents the day they close up shop... A lot of that going around lately, could be contagious!

 

[The Heretic]

Kinda makes me wonder if any FFLs will suddenly get in boating accidents the day they close up shop... A lot of that going around lately, could be contagious!

They have shop fires from what I hear.

 

[Knobgoblin]

I am changing my last name to Zebra.

Call sign
"Whiskey Zulu"

 

[billdeserthills]

Gun Owners of America is taking the ATF to task for developing an illegal & forbidden gun registry--Click the link to send a message to your lawmakers

ATF Has Nearly 1 BILLION Records in a Registry | GOA

Schumer Proposes to Reward ATF for Breaking Registry Prohibition Today, GOA needs you to take action to stop ATF from continuing to build out a national gun registry. GOA’s Prior Investigation into ATF’s Registry Back in November of 2021, GOA uncovered internal documents showing that ATF had...

www.gunowners.org

 

[gmerkt]

The ATF does a backtrace if a gun is involved in a crime, so at least the person who bought it from an FFL the first time is going to be on a record somewhere - unless the FFL "lost" his records, or the gun was bought new before 1968.

I sold the gun in 1991 or thereabouts, way before I-594. However, in those times I typically made a note of whom I'd sold the gun to, just in case such inquiries should come up later. So I had this information when asked by this police dept. and I furnished it to them. However, it may have been completely useless due to the passage of over 25 years time.

When I used to go to WAC gun shows, I might take a gun to sell. It wasn't only Washington residents who were attending those shows. We had people from Oregon, Idaho, wherever, who were members. The membership badge didn't indicate state of residence. So if I was selling a handgun via personal sale, no FFL, I had to make sure I was selling to a Wash. resident. To do otherwise (except to an FFL dealer, which isn't what I'm talking about here) would've been a violation of federal law. So I'd ask to see ID. This was expecially important if the gun in question was one that I'd bought through an FFL dealer and it was papered to me.

I've got a big box of paperwork, notes, receipts, records, photos, of my firearm transactions that go back to 1965. Up to the cyber era, now I have later stuff on my PC and a couple of flash drives. So when anyone asks me about a gun I used to own, I can give an answer that is protective of myself. Actually, considering the many hundreds of guns I've owned over the years, I'm surprised I've only been asked once about this sort of thing.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

Goes to show, there's always a way around a pile of crap aka, just because something is not "searchable", they'll find a way to make it work in their favor when it's politically and operationally convenient.

 

[coop44]

While the information was current 15-20 years ago, I seriously doubt it is of much use currently. A 20 year old 4473 doesn't even mention the firearm iirc. Actually I'm not sure if the current ones do.

 

[Alexx1401]

Sigh, guys does anyone really still believe that when you buy a gun through an FFL that the Gov does not keep track of it? The tech has grown, there is no "undoing" this now. We can't put the genie back in the bottle. ALL the problems with "gun law" are all in the lap of gun owners who refuse to lift a finger to protect their rights. Depending on courts to undo law makers is just never going to happen. Get every gun owner and every freedom loving person you all know to VOTE well. Its the only way this ever gets better or at least slows down.

 

[nammac]

While the information was current 15-20 years ago, I seriously doubt it is of much use currently. A 20 year old 4473 doesn't even mention the firearm iirc. Actually I'm not sure if the current ones do.

Current 4473's include make, model, caliber and serial number. I'm pretty sure they've included that information for more years than we'd like to remember.

 

[Mark W.]

So that estimate of some 400-450 million guns in the USA are a tad bit light? Got no virtual assistant around here bud.

 

[arakboss]

 

[arakboss]

So that estimate of some 400-450 million guns in the USA are a tad bit light? Got no virtual assistant around here bud.

Many firearms have exchanged hands multiple times. Guns created before 1968 would be included as well if they were transferred through FFL after 1968. I do agree the estimate is probably light but you would have take into account firearms destroyed or ditched in the river after a crime.

 

[arakboss]

Here is something else to think about when comparing this billion plus records number to firearms in circulation. When an FFL does a transfer to another FFL a form 4473 is probably not likely to be filled out. The transfer would be recorded in their book though. If they go out of business or give up their FFL then that book would be sent to the ATF along with 4473s. Those transfers from FFL to FFL would then be included in that billion plus number. They are supposedly receiving millions of records every month and have been for decades. Each firearm could potentially occupy three or more record entries before being sold to private customer. Manf on creation, manf to wholesaler, wholesaler to retailer. Sometimes retailer to retailer. Then figure out how many times a firearm might have been transferred by private parties through FFLs. I am guessing a lot of those billion plus entries are dealing with the same firearms. When Remington went out of business imagine the record entries created just for them. Bushmaster, Marlin, etc.

 

[arakboss]

Here is something else to think about when comparing this billion plus records number to firearms in circulation. When an FFL does a transfer to another FFL a form 4473 is probably not likely to be filled out. The transfer would be recorded in their book though. If they go out of business or give up their FFL then that book would be sent to the ATF along with 4473s. Those transfers from FFL to FFL would then be included in that billion plus number. They are supposedly receiving millions of records every month and have been for decades. Each firearm could potentially occupy three or more record entries before being sold to private customer. Manf on creation, manf to wholesaler, wholesaler to retailer. Sometimes retailer to retailer. Then figure out how many times a firearm might have been transferred by private parties through FFLs. I am guessing a lot of those billion plus entries are dealing with the same firearms. When Remington went out of business imagine the record entries created just for them. Bushmaster, Marlin, etc.

On the other hand if you count all the 80% and home built stuff that has been completed or is waiting to be built, the circulation number would jump significantly.