Handheld Muzzleloader That Uses Fuse Cord For Ignition And BP Barrel Pressure Limits vs Shotgun Barrel Pressure Limits.

[arakboss]

This is another idea I had which appears to have already been done. https://www.go2gbo.com/threads/fuse-fired-hand-cannon.251825/

I am mildly thinking about creating a handheld smooth bore barrel muzzleloading firearm that uses fuse cord for ignition instead of primers, percussion caps, pan, etc. Historically have there ever been any handheld, widely use muzzleloaders that used fuse cord for ignition.

My understanding is that average shotgun barrels are rated for around 12,500 PSI. What range of PSI are muzzleloader barrels typically rated at?

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[Andy54Hawken]

Sounds a lot like a historic Matchlock firearm....
Its been done before...but as much as I like old guns....
I've moved on to more modern firearms like flintlocks and percussion guns...
Andy

 

[arakboss]

Sounds a lot like a historic Matchlock firearm....
Its been done before...but as much as I like old guns....
I've moved on to more modern firearms like flintlocks and percussion guns...
Andy

Just looked up matchlock on wiki and that seems similar but still uses a pan of powder to ignite charge in barrel. This fellow just ran the fuse directly into the barrel. I wonder how much gas would come out of the fuse hole?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

If you look up "Hand gonne" or the like ...
You will see just what you described in your OP....
They work...but its more or less a pipe bomb for your hand.

Not saying they can't be safe...
Andy

 

[arakboss]

If you look up "Hand gonne" or the like ...
You will see just what you described in your OP....
They work...but its more or less a pipe bomb for your hand.

Not saying they can't be safe...
Andy

That's the ticket, thanks.

 

[arakboss]

Building one of these is definitely in my future, I like the fuse lit process he did towards the end of the video. I am thinking an AR upper could be modified to fit on the end of the stick to increase accuracy. Removing the firing pin from the BCG would provide touch hole to place a fuse. Muzzle load the upper, insert fuse into back of bolt, light fuse and hang on. The firing pin channel on bolt would probably have to be enlarged to fit fuse cord. All upper mods should be reversible except for enlarged firing pin hole.

Edit: incorporating the AR lower could give it more of a bazooka feel and provide an easy mounting method for stick. Chopping off the end of an extension tube would allow a stick to be inserted through the ext tube. Screws or bolts could then be installed to secure stick to extension tube. I am not sure what the legal classification of this firearm would be? Probably just a firearm. Two hand operation over 27 inches in overall length?

 

[Will_White]

Building one of these is definitely in my future, I like the fuse lit process he did towards the end of the video. I am thinking an AR upper could be modified to fit on the end of the stick to increase accuracy. Removing the firing pin from the BCG would provide touch hole to place a fuse. Muzzle load the upper, insert fuse into back of bolt, light fuse and hang on. The firing pin channel on bolt would probably have to be enlarged to fit fuse cord. All upper mods should be reversible except for enlarged firing pin hole.

I wouldn't trust the seal of an AR bolt without a cartridge, breech plugs are threaded for a reason.

 

[arakboss]

...

I wouldn't trust the seal of an AR bolt without a cartridge, breech plugs are threaded for a reason.

True. I will rethink this idea.

 

[arakboss]

I wouldn't trust the seal of an AR bolt without a cartridge, breech plugs are threaded for a reason.

I am going to go with more traditional design like this feller did. More pipe shopping this morning. Don't worry I will figure out some way to connect it to AR receiver

 

[arakboss]

Did I already mention that pipe and fitting prices are insane these days. I went with a 3/8 Galvanized 12" long nipple for the barrel. The 1/2 pipe was way bigger than half inch inside diameter and would not pass the ATF pin plunk test (just in case the 50cal rule applies to this modern day project). The inside diameter of the 3/8 pipe measures out at nearly a half inch around .495. Supposedly smaller diameter pipe has higher burst pressure limits so that's a win win. I bought two 3/8 iron couplers and one 3/8 iron plug. That should be the bare necessities to shoestring test it. With a little filing on the exterior of the 3/8 couplers, I got the assembly to slide into a 1" pipe. That means I can get a little longer 1" pipe and attach it to the AR15 in pretty much the same manner as the slam fire 12ga assy but I will figure out a way to secure the 3/8 assy to the new longer piece of 1" pipe. To swap from 12ga to "Assault Gonne" I will simple unscrew the 1" 12ga pipe and swap in the "Assault Gonne" pipe assembly. On the coupler at the muzzle end of the Assault Gonne assy I will remove the exposed threading at the very end. That coupler really isn't necessary except to stabilize the 3/8 assy inside the 1" pipe.


Edit: Actually the existing 1" pipe fits the Assault Gonne assy pretty well. Here is mock up, not assembled. The configuration shown in the mock up photo is missing the verticle grip that will be mounted on the rear tail pipe where a stock would go on a rifle. The current overall length is about 30 inches, not including the coupler on the end of the muzzle. It will require two hands to operate. A second person to light fuse would allow for shorter fuses to be used. If one person is lighting the fuse and shooting they will want a longer fuse.

 

[No_Regerts]

Like an open ended pipe bomb? Forget Handgonne. It'll be more like hand gone.

 

[arakboss]

I think I was dreaming about building cheap barely functional firearms last night but this idea just popped into my head this morning What if you were to marry the Hand Gonne and a slam fire shotgun barrel together? The hand gonne stick would hold the receiver portion of the slam fire shot gun. Then the barrel portion would have to have a long handle attached to it, so you could pull the barrel into to the receiver to fire it. Hand Gonne firearms don't appear to be very accurate but with a buckshot load that might increase your chances of hitting something.

 

[No_Regerts]

I'd probably just use it to beat someone to death.

 

[arakboss]

I'd probably just use it to beat someone to death.

it is heavy

 

[arakboss]

Did I already mention that pipe and fitting prices are insane these days. I went with a 3/8 Galvanized 12" long nipple for the barrel. The 1/2 pipe was way bigger than half inch inside diameter and would not pass the ATF pin plunk test (just in case the 50cal rule applies to this modern day project). The inside diameter of the 3/8 pipe measures out at nearly a half inch around .495. Supposedly smaller diameter pipe has higher burst pressure limits so that's a win win. I bought two 3/8 iron couplers and one 3/8 iron plug. That should be the bare necessities to shoestring test it. With a little filing on the exterior of the 3/8 couplers, I got the assembly to slide into a 1" pipe. That means I can get a little longer 1" pipe and attach it to the AR15 in pretty much the same manner as the slam fire 12ga assy but I will figure out a way to secure the 3/8 assy to the new longer piece of 1" pipe. To swap from 12ga to "Assault Gonne" I will simple unscrew the 1" 12ga pipe and swap in the "Assault Gonne" pipe assembly. On the coupler at the muzzle end of the Assault Gonne assy I will remove the exposed threading at the very end. That coupler really isn't necessary except to stabilize the 3/8 assy inside the 1" pipe.


Edit: Actually the existing 1" pipe fits the Assault Gonne assy pretty well. Here is mock up, not assembled. The configuration shown in the mock up photo is missing the verticle grip that will be mounted on the rear tail pipe where a stock would go on a rifle. The current overall length is about 30 inches, not including the coupler on the end of the muzzle. It will require two hands to operate. A second person to light fuse would allow for shorter fuses to be used. If one person is lighting the fuse and shooting they will want a longer fuse.

View attachment 1240298

Looks like this concept has already been done commercially.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

@Moderators suggest moving to homemade and experimental section. Thx!

 

[ronin223]

.50 rule does not apply to black powder muzzle loaders.

Lighting with a fuze is not historically correct.

If you don't care about historical accuracy why not use a rocket engine igniter like that japanese guy did when he shot abe. He made his black powder muzzle loader with pipes, board, electrical tape, battery, wires and model rocket engine ignitor. The genius part was the wires fed from the muzzle.

 

[arakboss]

.50 rule does not apply to black powder muzzle loaders.

Lighting with a fuze is not historically correct.

If you don't care about historical accuracy why not use a rocket engine igniter like that japanese guy did when he shot abe. He made his black powder muzzle loader with pipes, board, electrical tape, battery, wires and model rocket engine ignitor. The genius part was the wires fed from the muzzle.

Do you have links to ATF info that exempts all black powder muzzleloaders?

 

[ronin223]

1. 27 CFR 479.11
2. 
   
3. Antique firearm.Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
4. 
   
5. We have talked before and I know YOU WILL misread the law but I am correct DD laws do NOT apply to black powder.
   
   
   
6. 
   

 

[ilikegunspdx]

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