A change to block/ignore

[lucusloc]

Currently if you block/ignore someone it not only hides their content from you, it also hides your content from them. It should not do this, if they do not wish to see your content they have a block/ignore button of their own. If your content is hidden from them it can make it more difficult for them to continue participating in conversations that other people are having on the topic, as they will be missing half the context of that conversation. This allows someone to fragment small sections of the community without the consent of other members by making certain conversations almost entirely opaque to the blocked member. This should not be a possible function of the block/ignore feature, and for this reason I think that that feature should be one way only. If you block/ignore someone you will not see their content, but they will still have full visibility of yours. They will still be able to quote and interact with that content in order to participate in the conversation with other members, but you will not be alerted to or see any of that content (including not being able to see their quotes by other members, just as it works now). This would reduce the power of the ignore button to fragment the community and would reduce the impact on the blocked user.

For those that like not seeing the content of those that have ignored them, there could be an "automatically ignore back" option on the user profile that would maintain the current functionality.

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[lucusloc]

You're correct..I said the feature dissuades trolls. You said because you have 'actual experience' of trolls from different communities then you must be right and I must be wrong. So..I have an opinion, and you have facts. (Anecdotal btw).

Like I said in my prior post.. This is exactly what you've done a number of times in different threads. You seem to believe only your (actual opinion) counts. Even some moderators shut you down. People have ignored you. Nothing gets through.

By the way..how do you know so much about trolls or even take an interest in them? Why the passion about a public, random, internet forum? There's what..thousands of them out there. Why keep pushing your opinion? Opinion... Opinion...

I do data security for a living. Designing this kind of stuff is my area of expertise. I have opinions on what makes a good community, but when it comes to matters of security I have facts, data and years of experience that I can charge quite a bit of money for.

Trolls who just want to rile people up are basically the lowest tier of threats I deal with, and for my clients can offer reputational damage that must be considered and prevented. But the principles to control them are the same as for malicious actors who want to steal, hijack and corrupt. Again, you can argue that this type of "control" will be enough for someone who harbors no real ill intent, and that it offers enough of a barrier that someone who has no investment here will see it and simply choose to move on. Hell, that is exactly what my argument is when I am talking about attracting and retaining new members; this is enough of a barrier for such low effort individuals to choose to move on, including those we might actually wish to retain.

But this will not work for anyone who harbors any kind of malice, who is willing to put in even the barest levels of effort to cause even modest amounts of discord. It is not what amounts to any kind of security against bad actors, as it prevents nothing. The circumvention of this policy is built right into the site itself, and will be one of the first things noticed by a bad actor who may be browsing the site with multiple (free) accounts. Even basic IP protections (as feeble and easily bypassed as they are) offer orders of magnitude more security than this policy. The arguments for this feature cannot lie in any notions of security, as there are none. This is simply a policy of social etiquette, as established and enforced by the site admins, against only people willing to abide by it.

 

[Indy62]

I give up. Now you're qualifying yourself to your 'opinion' by submitting for our viewing pleasure the idea that your way is the right way because it's a 'fact' and you're the security expert.

I own a dog, so I can qualify myself to the 'fact' that his poop smells like dogsh!t. That doesn't mean that everyone finds the smell offensive. But I do..that's my opinion.

It sort of smells like this whole thread now that I think about it.

 

[Joe13]

I do data security for a living. Designing this kind of stuff is my area of expertise. I have opinions on what makes a good community, but when it comes to matters of security I have facts, data and years of experience that I can charge quite a bit of money for.

Trolls who just want to rile people up are basically the lowest tier of threats I deal with, and for my clients can offer reputational damage that must be considered and prevented. But the principles to control them are the same as for malicious actors who want to steal, hijack and corrupt. Again, you can argue that this type of "control" will be enough for someone who harbors no real ill intent, and that it offers enough of a barrier that someone who has no investment here will see it and simply choose to move on. Hell, that is exactly what my argument is when I am talking about attracting and retaining new members; this is enough of a barrier for such low effort individuals to choose to move on, including those we might actually wish to retain.

But this will not work for anyone who harbors any kind of malice, who is willing to put in even the barest levels of effort to cause even modest amounts of discord. It is not what amounts to any kind of security against bad actors, as it prevents nothing. The circumvention of this policy is built right into the site itself, and will be one of the first things noticed by a bad actor who may be browsing the site with multiple (free) accounts. Even basic IP protections (as feeble and easily bypassed as they are) offer orders of magnitude more security than this policy. The arguments for this feature cannot lie in any notions of security, as there are none. This is simply a policy of social etiquette, as established and enforced by the site admins, against only people willing to abide by it.

If member retention is the goal then I would say that thru the years, not only has this place exploded in numbers, that the community more or less self regulates.

Yes there are cliques just like every other human social interaction but that's a good thing as if someone is misjudged or harassed then their mates step up and support them.

The opposite is true…. Come in with 2 thread posts and start spouting very radical opinions and you will most likely get put in place by everyone reading it - I've seen It happen so many times I can't count. Some of them went on to become active members and others fizzled out.


At the end of the day, people can be polite and stay engaged or they can get a bunch of people pissed and get blocked/ignored/or just plain have people stop responding to them at all. You get what you put into this forum.

I have thick skin, I like to think, but I also have to deal with some of the lowest of the low and I don't always want to deal with the 2 kinds of people that in my experience are willing to give me grief vs just keeping their pie holes shut.

People in vehicles and people on the internet.

I've hit the ignore button and then went back days later when I wasn't dealing with as much in my life and unblocked people. At least a few went on to become regular people I had private conversations with.

I may not have been on much since mid 2020 and there are reasons for that, most of which seem to have self regulated (which is why I have even started posting again). I don't have to tell you about this place pre-2020. You've been here longer than I have. It was very tight for the most part and very little in fighting happened.

I've met lifelong friends on here and I've met more then a few people I'd rather never see or hear about again.

I admire your tenacity but I would let this thread die as you are preaching to the wrong people. Joe Link isn't going to read this thread (at least I seriously doubt it). The best way to get ahold of him is a PM and outline your stance. If he agrees or wants more information about it he will absolutely reach out, but if it isn't high on his priority list then don't take it personally if you do not get a response - I know he gets flooded with requests and asks the moderators here to keep the day to day peace.

I try not to sugar coat things for people but I also do not try to be intentionally abrasive either.

This is my best advice and my honest opinion (obviously opinions are like - well you know) so take it for what it's worth but the longer the thread goes the more likely name calling happens and then the thread is shut down and if it gets real bad disappears.

I'm going to bounce off this thread but I wish everyone the best of luck with whatever and y'all stay safe out there.

 

[Lilhigbee]

You make it sound like this affects most of the new people who come here. It doesn't!! It only affects ones who have earned a place on someone's Ignore list.

I do feel that it is holding back the site

It isn't. What, 85,000 members now, or something like that?? Most likely a typical proportion of active and inactive people.

causing issues for people who are not integrated enough with the community

Only if they've been Ignored. Most new people don't get Ignored until they've earned it.

the needling and cheerleading for failure that is present on nearly every page

Must be a different site than the one I'm on. This comment is a joke.

if there is an addressable point I address it in a reply and leave it at that, unless the conversation continues with more addressable points

Let's rephrase this; I have the last word, unless I don't get the last word, then I'll have the last word.

 

[solv3nt]

Next three downvotes to make an even fifteen, with a before and after screenshot get a bronze membership.

 

[FATAL125]

Next three downvotes to make an even fifteen, with a before and after screenshot get a bronze membership.

I did my part...

 

[solv3nt]

I did my part...

View attachment 1885092 View attachment 1885094

 

[FATAL125]

View attachment 1885147

I legitimately thought you were joking...

Good on ya! Appreciate the love!

 

[solv3nt]

I legitimately thought you were joking...

Good on ya! Appreciate the love!

I do what I says, and I says what I do. What kind of a man does any less?

 

[Nosferatu]

I got you down to -13.

That's subject to change, however.

 

[FATAL125]

I do what I says, and I says what I do. What kind of a man does any less?

Was that rhetorical...?

Or do you want names...?

 

[Old Dog]

24 pages thus far and I'm still not exactly sure what this thread is about.

The "ignore" function as far as I'm concerned, though, is a joke. On most forums, where members typically display respect for other members, even those with whom they disagree, it doesn't seem to be a thing.

As a personal example, there's a member of this forum who has decided that he hates me as a result of a post I made a year ago (which apparently, he simply could not comprehend), and so he routinely pops up in threads in which I've posted to offer forth his opinion of me (hint: it's not flattering).

However, since he has put me on his own "ignore list" I cannot see what he says about me.

So pretty much, this stuff just fosters bullying and childishness such as we used to see in middle school, where guys would talk **** about us behind our backs, but never directly to our faces.

I guess I'd say the ignore function is pretty useless.

Basically, a mechanism for members to disrespect other members who will never see that they're being disrespected.

Long way of saying that I may agree with some of what the OP is getting at.

 

[sobo]

View attachment 1885147

I legitimately thought you were joking...

Good on ya! Appreciate the love!

That sumbeeyotch has gotten two free memberships now. He keeps this shiit up, he's gonna have all five in no time!

Gotta admit, there's something to be said for a total sycophantic suck-up...

 

[Nosferatu]

That sumbeeyotch has gotten two free memberships now. He keeps this shiit up, he's gonna have all five in no time!

Gotta admit, there's something to be said for a total sycophantic suck-up...

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[OldBroad44]

No, you said that this dissuades trolls, I said I have actual experience with trolls that disagrees with that point. There are facts and there are opinions. Facts are there are indeed high effort trolls, and you can find evidence of that everywhere, from forums that specifically cater to getting around moderation software (e.g. IP blocking and hardware fingerprint anonymization). Are their low effort trolls? Sure, but by and large the are the denizens of sites that don't even bother to require a login, or that do so without requiring any kind of verification (email, OAuth or whatever). Once you get past that you have mostly self-selected for the high effort trolls who will install software and plugins to get the rise they are looking for. Again, this is all info I have gained from personal experience running online communities. And this is a discussion about facts; does this feature do much to discourage trolls, or does it do very little? And if it does very little is it worth the cost it puts on the community?

You are of course are free to disagree all you want, but as of yet, in this whole thread, I have yet to see a refutation of my stance that this is not a security feature. I find it hard to understand how anyone can make that argument given that logging out removes the block on content.

@lucusloc --About your concept of high-effort trolls--I heard it said that sites requiring pay, even modest pay such as $2/month, greatly cut down on trolls, maybe eliminate them all together. Have you any moderating experience that sheds light on the issue of the correlation between trolling and freeloading?

 

[DB is Here]

Appreciate all who've contributed positively to this thread, with that said before this continues down a road that'd only incite personal contention it'll be closed.