Keep or release?

[ConcernedCitizen]

I just pretend to fish. Every now and then one gets caught on my line, but for the most part it's more avoid and evade!

Generally, if I'm fishing I intend to eat it, but have been known to harass trout on occasion.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Well I'll be danged, where have I been during this whole debate??? I'll bet a lot of you already know my thoughts on this but for the sake of argument I'll restate them.
Fish were put on this earth to be eet (ate).I
There was a time when hatcheries didn't exist but for greed they were invented (1870's) to replace what was squandered by commercial fish companies.
Due to this overfishing practice we have to buy license to fish (hunt) to pay for opportunities to fish in barren waters.
Fish managers have no idea of what they are tasked to do.
I have released MANY salmon and steelhead in my day and know for a fact most were unclipped hatchery fish by the deformed dorsal fins.
A "Native" back in the day had clear and straight "rays" on all its fins which were unmolested unlike the crowded conditions of hatchery fish that swam in tight pods & against the concrete raceways. The dorsal fin is a dead giveaway to distinguish the two.
Enough with the rant.

I catch to eat, C&R is a waist of my time as I do not play with my food.
Many fish, not all, will die no matter if one thinks it was "swimming away fine".
I've seen it on many salmon & steelhead runs in the past.

 

[nwwoodsman]

PETA agrees with you.

I'm okay with that. I know they don't agree with the pot of elk stew I cooked up today and I'm okay with that also. Nothing wrong with being humane towards with the animals we harvest.

 

[nwwoodsman]

Nobody can tell me that hunting is strictly for the meat. It's cheaper to buy meat at the store. So when "meat" hunters won't admit that they enjoy the hunt as well as eating the meat, there is something smelly in Bangkok!

I'll spend about $125 on a license and tag, possibly another box of ammo, maybe another roll of freezer paper and gas to get to my hunting spot that is 10 minutes away. I'll use a weeks vacation and get paid while I'm hunting. Rifle has already paid for itself. If I get 225lbs off an elk, that's 56 cents a pound. Quite a savings over the $14/lb that stores charge for elk meat.

 

[bbbass]

I'll spend about $125 on a license and tag, possibly another box of ammo, maybe another roll of freezer paper and gas to get to my hunting spot that is 10 minutes away. I'll use a weeks vacation and get paid while I'm hunting. Rifle has already paid for itself. If I get 225lbs off an elk, that's 56 cents a pound. Quite a savings over the $14/lb that stores charge for elk meat.

How unusual!

I think most elk hunters are like my buddies... They spend $200 ea in fuel to get here. Another $200 in misc stuff. Another $300 in whiskey and food they wouldn't normally consume. $200 (or more) to replace/upgrade camp gear. A week away from their businesses so they aren't earning anything, say $2000. But I think if one is doing it just for the meat and not for pleasure, one has to count the value of the vacation time... say $25 x 40hrs = $1000. That's $13.33 or $8.88 depending on whether missing business or using vacation. I'd compare it to beef, which I'm buying at $2.99 to $4.99 a pound but some people are buying more expensive beef. I don't really like elk meat as much as some people do, so I'll stay with the cheaper meats to compare it to. (I'm being generous here... given a choice between an elk steak and the chuck steak I had last night, I'll choose the chuck steak every time. To me, an elk steak is a cross between a round steak and liver. Edible, but not really enjoyable. Any meat you have to tenderize and then cover with mushroom soup is not really the best meat eh!)

Elk hunters...

Don't get me wrong, if it's meat hunter vs trophy hunter, I'm a meat hunter. I use all the meat I harvest, give it away, or I don't take it. But I don't go hunting for the meat... I go hunting for the challenge, the primal experience, to be closer to nature, to secure my own food, to give fair chase, to enjoy the woods, to camp out, and to share those experiences with my buddies. So I guess I'd say that I hunt for pleasure. But I really don't enjoy killing, not that kind of sick pleasure, I just have to kill in order to complete the mission.

 

[bbbass]

I'm okay with that. I know they don't agree with the pot of elk stew I cooked up today and I'm okay with that also. Nothing wrong with being humane towards with the animals we harvest.

Blowing out their hearts, or lungs, or spine, or shooting off a leg, or putting an arrow in a deer's guts/haunch/lungs and letting it run til it expires. Yeah, that's humane.

PETA has one thing right, if you are eating meat, you are killing animals. From the killing fields to the slaughterhouse bullet in the head, there is no "humane" way to murder an animal.

Nope, hunting is savage! We must accept that or we are just lying to ourselves. People that think they are treating animals they shoot humanely and then object to catch and release fishing are victims of delusional thinking. Just IMO...

 

[Caveman Jim]

Don't forget the likes of NSF (Native Fish Society) and other assorted non profits that believe fish are for our entertainment and not for sustenance. And (I) have a feeling that other countries, and even Alaskan fishers, take fish destined for waters in the lower 48 in much larger numbers that they did 20-30 years ago. And of course THAT sort of thing isn't important enough for anyone to do something about as long as people keep paying for those salmon tags.

Mike, you are spot on my friend. I've said this before but for those who haven't seen it, here goes. WDFW told a group of pissed off fishermen that Alaska & Canadian commercials take a minimum of 50% & could be as high as 75% of salmon destined to the Chehalis river watershed. We are left to squabble with the tribal & non tribal gillnetters in the river that do not release ANY live fish even though they are supposed to do so.

As for the bubblegum that the WFC has pulled over the years, they are as bad as the gun control groups. Holding the ratepayers hostage while making policies that benefit themselves!!!

 

[Mikej]

Mike, you are spot on my friend. I've said this before but for those who haven't seen it, here goes. WDFW told a group of pissed off fishermen that Alaska & Canadian commercials take a minimum of 50% & could be as high as 75% of salmon destined to the Chehalis river watershed. We are left to squabble with the tribal & non tribal gillnetters in the river that do not release ANY live fish even though they are supposed to do so.

As for the bubblegum that the WFC has pulled over the years, they are as bad as the gun control groups. Holding the ratepayers hostage while making policies that benefit themselves!!!

Jim, here's something I found interesting on ifish. Flooding the oceans with chum and pinks to net may be upsetting the food base of the entire Pacific ocean.

Interesting talk with a biologist last night - www.ifish.net

 

[Caveman Jim]

Jim, here's something I found interesting on ifish. Flooding the oceans with chum and pinks to net may be upsetting the food base of the entire Pacific ocean.

Interesting talk with a biologist last night - www.ifish.net

Yes, that discussion is very interesting to say the least, thanks for that.

Years ago I would throw in my .02 on these types of discussions on ifish and had been told many times that I didn't know what I was talking about. I attended WDFW meetings, asked questions and spoke with many people with influence involved on the sport fishing side but I didn't know what I was talking about....
I stopped visiting them due to the elite blather, it's the same here, always someone thinking they know it all... But that is for another discussion.

I find it rather disturbing that TPTB are not overly concerned about Alaska, Canada and the many other countries that are raiding our fish and pushing the balance of the ocean out of whack.

As with anything that produces MEGA $$$$$$ it is indeed political and the squeaky wheel (well organized activists) get the grease and we peons get the shaft!!!

 

[Mikej]

Yes, that discussion is very interesting to say the least, thanks for that.

Years ago I would throw in my .02 on these types of discussions on ifish and had been told many times that I didn't know what I was talking about. I attended WDFW meetings, asked questions and spoke with many people with influence involved on the sport fishing side but I didn't know what I was talking about....
I stopped visiting them due to the elite blather, it's the same here, always someone thinking they know it all... But that is for another discussion.

I find it rather disturbing that TPTB are not overly concerned about Alaska, Canada and the many other countries that are raiding our fish and pushing the balance of the ocean out of whack.

As with anything that produces MEGA $$$$$$ it is indeed political and the squeaky wheel (well organized activists) get the grease and we peons get the shaft!!!

I hardly post there anymore. Salmon/steelhead fisherman for the large part are selfish and have huge egos. Then there's the guide mentality. There's still a few real nice folks on ifish. I wouldn't found NWFA if it were'n for a member at ifish called Beefcake.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I hardly post there anymore. Salmon/steelhead fisherman for the large part are selfish and have huge egos. Then there's the guide mentality. There's still a few real nice folks on ifish. I wouldn't found NWFA if it were'n for a member at ifish called Beefcake.

Same here, I remember him also.

I have always had a passion for fishing, hunting, guns and for fighting the injustices set forth on the law abiding but I'm damn tired of it nowadays. It's time for the younger generation to take the reigns and my God have mercy on our souls if they do not...

 

[PNWguy]

I'm okay with that. I know they don't agree with the pot of elk stew I cooked up today and I'm okay with that also. Nothing wrong with being humane towards with the animals we harvest.

No. Just no...

Not only do they "not agree with you" on hunting, they also promote and have engaged in harassment of hunters and fisherman. They don't care if you catch and release or if you hunt strictly for meat or if you think you're a werewolf and pray to the moon goddess after every kill.

PETA is an extreme organization rife with people who are mentally ill and who believe wholeheartedly in the concept of destroying all of humanity.

Their views are toxic and if you find some of your views coinciding with theirs, then you are probably wrong.

 

[bbbass]

Salmon/steelhead fisherman for the large part are selfish and have huge egos.

Take out the dams!!! We don't care about flood control or electrical needs, it's the fish!!! Only wild fish tho, no hatchery, and only if caught on flies with a 14' Spey rod. The rest of you are Bohemian slobs!!!

 

[bbbass]

No. Just no...

Not only do they "not agree with you" on hunting, they also promote and have engaged in harassment of hunters and fisherman. They don't care if you catch and release or if you hunt strictly for meat or if you think you're a werewolf and pray to the moon goddess after every kill.

PETA is an extreme organization rife with people who are mentally ill and who believe wholeheartedly in the concept of destroying all of humanity.

Their views are toxic and if you find some of your views coinciding with theirs, then you are probably wrong.

Oh but, don't hurt the fish... poking fish hook holes in their little mouthy parts is barbaric!!!

 

[PNWguy]

Oh but, don't hurt the fish... poking fish hook holes in their little mouthy parts is barbaric!!!

I only fish with rainbows and poems...

 

[Mikej]

Take out the dams!!! We don't care about flood control or electrical needs, it's the fish!!! Only wild fish tho, no hatchery, and only if caught on flies with a 14' Spey rod. The rest of you are Bohemian slobs!!!

That's what kills me. So many things "fishing" in Oregon are screwed! Fill the rivers with wild fish so we can stand on the bank and look at them. Not to close though because there may be erosion concerns. So many great put and take trout fisheries, gone. Siltcoos lake where we've spent a lot of time the past 20 years had an awesome lightly fished trout population. Planters that would survive in the food rich lake would commonly grow to 4# and more. Now, they plant a small hand full...correction, unless they planted in Siltcoos Lake already there are no more the rest of the year.

Summer Steelhead and thousands of planted trout gone from the upper Clackamas years ago. I don't know if chinook really increased much. I used to see them all over in places, laying low in the cooler more oxygenated water in the heat of summer. It was a greta river to take kids to and trout/steelhed fish.

Crap, way off topic. I'll always be bitter about what this state/country has allowed to happen to our anadromous fish.

 

[bbbass]

I only fish with rainbows and poems...

Or poems about rainbows:

The morning rays of the Sun cling
On the upper bow of the Rainbow
Emerge after a moment 's dusk
Brown Pelicans and Western Gulls
Fly beneath the lower bow
That touches the water
Send fishes into hiding

Oh no! ... The fishies go into hiding!! ... No more poems, the fish don't like it!!!

 

[bbbass]

That's what kills me. So many things "fishing" in Oregon are screwed! Fill the rivers with wild fish so we can stand on the bank and look at them. Not to close though because there may be erosion concerns. So many great put and take trout fisheries, gone. Siltcoos lake where we've spent a lot of time the past 20 years had an awesome lightly fished trout population. Planters that would survive in the food rich lake would commonly grow to 4# and more. Now, they plant a small hand full...correction, unless they planted in Siltcoos Lake already there are no more the rest of the year.

Summer Steelhead and thousands of planted trout gone from the upper Clackamas years ago. I don't know if chinook really increased much. I used to see them all over in places, laying low in the cooler more oxygenated water in the heat of summer. It was a greta river to take kids to and trout/steelhed fish.

Crap, way off topic. I'll always be bitter about what this state/country has allowed to happen to our anadromous fish.

Well, I wouldn't know, since I can't afford to go fishing any more. $50 for a fishing license, $10 for the Columbia R tax, lord knows how much a salmon/steelhead tag costs, $4/gal for diesel... the only place I can afford to drive to for fishing is 15min away and it is a small, but pretty, lake that is very crowded. They used to stock it with planter sized trout for the kid's fishing derby, then they'd put excess hatchery steelhead in there. It's very popular, but no motors allowed, and the lake gets mossed in during the summer. Too many rude young people are partying up there now, they've taken over the handicapped dock and refuse to get off.

Flymph mentioned that salmon fishing has sucked the last few years. I think the mismanagement is pretty widespread and a lot of it has to do with lawsuits from enviros and their populating the fish and fuzz agencies. It's all political now instead of for the benefit of the fisherman as well as the fish.

Interesting that the commercial outfits are having such a big impact. I didn't know.

Used to see salmon spawning in October just downhill/east of Anthony Lakes... The North Fork John Day at the campground, also known as Four Corners. A lot of fun to watch them. But last time I was there I couldn't find any... I wonder.

 

[Mikej]

Well, I wouldn't know, since I can't afford to go fishing any more. $50 for a fishing license, $10 for the Columbia R tax, lord knows how much a salmon/steelhead tag costs, $4/gal for diesel... the only place I can afford to drive to for fishing is 15min away and it is a small, but pretty, lake that is very crowded. They used to stock it with planter sized trout for the kid's fishing derby, then they'd put excess hatchery steelhead in there. It's very popular, but no motors allowed, and the lake gets mossed in during the summer. Too many rude young people are partying up there now, they've taken over the handicapped dock and refuse to get off.

Flymph mentioned that salmon fishing has sucked the last few years. I think the mismanagement is pretty widespread and a lot of it has to do with lawsuits from enviros and their populating the fish and fuzz agencies. It's all political now instead of for the benefit of the fisherman as well as the fish.

Interesting that the commercial outfits are having such a big impact. I didn't know.

Used to see salmon spawning in October just downhill/east of Anthony Lakes... The North Fork John Day at the campground, also known as Four Corners. A lot of fun to watch them. But last time I was there I couldn't find any... I wonder.

It was $82.00+/- for the two of us for the basic fishing license. We haven't got the clam license for several years. To long a drive (2 hours) and sometimes you'd be hard pressed to get a limit due to rough surf. This year marks the first time I haven't bought a salmon tag since 1985.

 

[bbbass]

It was $82.00+/- for the two of us for the basic fishing license. We haven't got the clam license for several years. To long a drive (2 hours) and sometimes you'd be hard pressed to get a limit due to rough surf. This year marks the first time I haven't bought a salmon tag since 1985.

K. They said they're upping it another $6 or so for next year... close enough to $50 for my poor pocketbook. I can pay for a fishing iicense that I won't use, or I can pay for a Rifle and Pistol Club membership and go to the range... not both. Sigh.

Clam license... wtf?

I stopped buying a steelhead tag 2 yrs ago... I hate standing out in the blowing snow and losing most of my tackle!

Wife mentioned her Free Pioneer ODFW pass this morning... the price is $6/yr now, maybe next year the price of the free license be $10?