Oregon Why people should not sign the petitions

[dancinghippos]

People are going out gathering signatures for two Oregon initiatives IP17, IP18, that affect your rights of self-defense. It is easier to stop that initiative in the signature process than at the ballot box. It's hard to compete with their friends in the leftist media for commercials and news coverage. My idea is that we collect easy to understand arguments against gun registration, magazine restrictions and bans on so-called "semiautomatic assault rifles". What the Washington legislature just did to their state, a Portland church wants to do to Oregon via these initiatives.

Please post simple arguments against these initiatives that are easy for a person not concerned with gun rights on either side to understand. I will gather, edit and post them on a website a webmaster is putting together.

The next step is that we print small one-page flyers titled DONT SIGN IT with a few of those arguments and a link to the site.

Then over the next few months, we need people to be out and around posting those flyers or handing them out. Especially good would be going to venues where signature gatherers are and offering flyers and smarter opinions. Most gun control proponents are shamefully ignorant of the facts. They just believe what they are told. If you counter their statements with factual provable arguments, observers will choose not to sign.

I don't expect to win arguments with petitioners. I expect to raise enough doubts in the minds of disinterested people so they won't want to sign the petition.

Thoughts?

Please put up some arguments.

Read More

 

[dancinghippos]

This is one sample argument:

Police who work on the streets are our foremost experts on crime. Ask any officers you know if they think magazine restrictions or bans on so-called "assault weapons" will affect crime. They will tell you those laws only hurt people who are otherwise law abiding, and do not affect people who already ignore other laws. Cops know this, politicians don't.

PoliceOne, an organization of about 380,000 active and 70,000 retired officers, surveyed 15,000 members on gun control policies in 2013. 71% of respondents said that a ban on so-called "assault weapons" would have no effect on violent crime. 20% of the respondents said it would make crime worse. 95% said magazine size restrictions will have no effect. Yet these so-called "common sense restrictions" are what these bills will do to you.

This is a link to their results

PoliceOne's Gun Control Survey: 11 key lessons from officers' perspectives

Never before has such a comprehensive survey of law enforcement officers’ opinions on gun control, gun violence, and gun rights been conducted

www.police1.com

Consider that politicians pay for surveys of 2000 voters to represent 340 million Americans. This poll of 15,000 police officers is guaranteed to be an accurate view of what police really think about gun laws.

 

[Jay Walk]

This will be easy, just hand those flyers out at Wilsonville Subaru, Columbia Sportswear and REI.

 

[Stomper]

Easy solution….. starting beating the chit out of people and when they realize there's not a cop around to save them, they'll figure it out.

 

[Aero Denezol]

This will be easy, just hand those flyers out at Wilsonville Subaru, Columbia Sportswear and REI.

^^Awesome and true. The people who are gonna sign this petition with gusto are the usual suspects. We all know who they are. Ungrateful cowards who enjoy all the benefits of a super good and easy life but are still resentful.

I haven't seen the signature gatherers out anywhere near Salem. How about we set up some alerts?

 

[Aero Denezol]

My tag line(s):

"Read the fine print first!"

"Today us, tomorrow you"

"End mob tyranny"

"Stand up to the mob"

 

[ron]

Easy solution….. starting beating the chit out of people and when they realize there's not a cop around to save them, they'll figure it out.

We all would like to do this but it could backfire on us. Probably not a serious proposal.
What if someone pretended to want to sign the petition and instead damage or destroy the signature papers
they are promoting. I had a mental health crisis do to PTS battlefield flash back. Not my fault I couldn't help it.
Most the time the signature gatherers are not even giving out the correct information about the initiatives.

 

[dancinghippos]

We all would like to do this but it could backfire on us. Probably not a serious proposal.
What if someone pretended to want to sign the petition and instead damage or destroy the signature papers
they are promoting. I had a mental health crisis do to PTS battlefield flash back. Not my fault I couldn't help it.
Most the time the signature gatherers are not even giving out the correct information about the initiatives.

Stumbling and wrecking the papers isn't any more serious a proposal. Our hobby is in this mess because most people don't know or care one way or the other, so they are susceptible to dumb arguments about guns. People see signature gatherers as an interruption. If the gatherer pitches an idea that "sounds good, I guess" they will sign and move on. If the idea doesn't "sound good", they will say, "no thanks" and move on. I would rather help the voter understand enough to say, "no thanks".

 

[ma96782]

When I think about it.......

WE elect people to represent and vote (for us) in the Legislature.

BUT, But, but......
Why do I/should I/would I......let them shirk on/renege on their job's duties?

Oh yeah, BTW.....
I also expect that they READ the legislation and maybe have a BETTER understanding (since anyway, most of them are lawyers).

WAIT, Wait, wait......
Is this just one (isolated) example of the quality of legislators or is it a reflection on the Amerikan Voters?

Nah.....you must have been dreaming!



Aloha, Mark

 

[tkdguy]

Get me the flyers and i will post.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Criminals by nature flaunt laws, making more laws does nothing to stop crimes when those who commit crimes don't care. We need tougher laws that actually punish crimes, not the innocent law abiding!

These feel good anti gun laws do nothing to address crimes, or criminal behaviour, they only punish law abiding who have done nothing wrong!

These terms ( assault weapons, high capasity mags, ext) are disingenuous made up terms that have zero meaning, they assign blame to a tool and not the individual who uses said tool!

These bans target classes or firearms not seen or used in crimes, yet they are somehow the specific targets, ask yourself why? Why would these bans target so called Assault Rifles and high capasity magazines and other scary features, when it's hand guns most often used by criminals.

How are criminals getting their hands on weapons, especially when they are already felons forbidden from owning or possessing firearms, stolen weapons account for the highest number of recovered weapons, and yet these I.Ps target a whole different class of firearms that have nothing to do with the claimed solutions!

Banning something does nothing to prevent their use in crimes, it simply punishes the law abiding, and denies them the god Given right to self protection!

 

[ZigZagZeke]

My wife says I'm forgetful. I might forget what county I live in, forget my real name, forget my actual address and just go ahead and sign their petition anyway. If I remember correctly an invalid signature invalidates a whole page.

 

[Rkangel]

My wife says I'm forgetful. I might forget what county I live in, forget my real name, forget my actual address and just go ahead and sign their petition anyway. If I remember correctly an invalid signature invalidates a whole page.

Napoleon Bonaparte, Napoleon Dynamite, and Mike Roch would all gladly sign these petitions.

 

[dancinghippos]

"But wait, they register cars, so why not guns?"
A much smaller slice of the gun owning population commits crimes with guns than the slice of car owning population who commits crimes with cars. But let's stick with that analogy for a moment. You have been a law abiding car owner for decades, yet a handful of other car owners continually drive drunk and use cars for robberies. Politicians find too much political heat for prosecuting and jailing repeat offenders whose drivers' licenses were already taken away, but who drive drunk anyway. They find it politically easy to blame cars and public car ownership in general. They have professional drivers to drive them around, but wish to restrict your car ownership and eventually ban it altogether.

Those cars are all registered. Turn them in or go to jail.

 

[Mikej]

My wife says I'm forgetful. I might forget what county I live in, forget my real name, forget my actual address and just go ahead and sign their petition anyway. If I remember correctly an invalid signature invalidates a whole page.

If you hunt the signature gatherer's down and sign all the petitions you can, as many times as you can, will that help invalidate the petition overall?

 

[Rkangel]

"But wait, they register cars, so why not guns?"
A much smaller slice of the gun owning population commits crimes with guns that car owning population commit crimes with cars. But let's stick with that analogy for a moment. You have been a law abiding car owner for decades, yet a handful of other car owners continually drive drunk and use cars for robberies. Politicians find too much political heat for prosecuting and jailing repeat offenders whose drivers' licenses were already taken away, but who drive drunk anyway. They find it politically easy to blame cars and public car ownership in general. They have professional drivers to drive them around, but wish to restrict your car ownership and eventually ban it altogether.

Those cars are all registered. Turn them in or go to jail.

Not to mention that the 2nd Amendment is a right, protected by the Constitution. Driving is a privilege, granted by the state.

 

[CLT65]

"But wait, they register cars, so why not guns?"

You only have to register a car to drive it on a public road. You can own as many as you want and drive them as much as you want on private property, without registering them. Hey, let's register guns just like cars!

 

[ma96782]

"But wait, they register cars, so why not guns?"
A much smaller slice of the gun owning population commits crimes with guns than the slice of car owning population who commits crimes with cars. But let's stick with that analogy for a moment. You have been a law abiding car owner for decades, yet a handful of other car owners continually drive drunk and use cars for robberies. Politicians find too much political heat for prosecuting and jailing repeat offenders whose drivers' licenses were already taken away, but who drive drunk anyway. They find it politically easy to blame cars and public car ownership in general. They have professional drivers to drive them around, but wish to restrict your car ownership and eventually ban it altogether.

Those cars are all registered. Turn them in or go to jail.

There is an easier way to make that point.


And the other one too.


Aloha, Mark

 

[dancinghippos]

Get me the flyers and i will post.

I will reach out

 

[Caveman Jim]

"Cops know this, politicians don't."
Politicians damn well know it but they will never bring it to light that they know it to "their" constituents.
Snakes!