National Who Will Take Our Firearms?

[CamoDeafie]

Unless you live in a large Democratic-run city you only get one vote so which people would you have "throw the whole lot out" and how would they do that? What would you have people do rather than "just whine"?

enough voters to throw them out. enough write ins.
enough votes cast against the incumbents.

There are always options to not vote for D or R candidates.

Even if we couldn't muster the numbers to throw everyone out in one go, we had the chances to throw out a significant number of incumbents and so forth.

The number 1 thing they fear? losing their seats . It could have been as simple as voting for the unknown, new persons, or for the opponents on the ballots for the House and Senate Seats.

This recent "election" has proved to them that they don't need to fear losing their jobs, as long as they can get the most airtime/donations.

 

[arakboss]

Who Will Take Our Firearms?

This cop

Exactly and many more like him will just follow orders.

Neuroscientists have found a basis for the ‘I was just following orders’ excuse

The Nuremberg defense "has some roots in actual subjective experience."

qz.com

 

[arakboss]

I guess I'd be wasting your time to answer your questions, but maybe not the time of others who are genuinely interested.

The fact is, we don't have the political power (nor will we have in the short term, demographically speaking) to do what we want done. It is utterly foolish to argue what will or won't work in an open forum, so let me be blunt with you:

The right, especially on the issue of gun Rights, takes two steps forward and three steps back. They back down, compromise, and play defense. Then we have the critics who proclaim that something he is totally unfamiliar is unworkable. Do you see the irony there?

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." Proverbs 18 : 13

Gun owners, as a group waste more time fighting each other than they do the enemies of Liberty and Freedom. As for myself, I spent several decades proving what was possible and, in many cases, what would happen if patriot type people followed a given course. Despite the fact that history proved me right, it means NOTHING. So, regardless of who constitutes a part of Operation Resist Tyranny, unless they fail, you are writing based upon ignorance.

Oh, if the patriots had the power we could repeal gun control in one fell swoop. But, let's face it. When Donald Trump went into office, he had a Republican House and Senate. He failed to get anything done. His accomplishments came by way of Executive Orders and those were being repealed the very moment Biden walked away after being sworn in. You had that advantage and you criticize me?

In fighting a strategic war, you do not go up against an adversary and try to trade blows with them one on one. You dismantle their machinery a little at a time. America was lost on the installment plan. You have two choices today: physically fight back OR fight back via the political and legal avenues. Imagine you're in a ring with an opponent and you have to wrestle them knowing they are much bigger and much stronger than you. Talk and bravado may sound good, but are of little use to you in the fight. If you have to wrestle someone to beat them, you go to basics. Your opponent has five points of balance: two arms, two legs, and the head. immobilize one point of balance and you can win. It works the same way in a political battle.

Operation Resist Tyranny is the work of several people with a lot of practical legal and political experience. They are working right now to set up a website, line up people willing to teach supporters how to fight back via the political and legal avenues of redress. At the heart of ORT is something called PROJECT DEFUND TYRANNY. The left wants to defund "police." Let's start with defunding tyrants at the federal level. The plan behind ORT is to start with workable ideas that the left will be hard pressed to oppose. THAT is why we don't go off half cocked, talking trash about getting rid of all unconstitutional gun laws. You don't want the left to oppose you. You want them to inadvertently HELP you. And, barring that, you don't give them a reason to go to the polls.

I have to be vague because the left monitors these sites. ORT has no leadership; it doesn't ask you for money. The enemies of Liberty cannot kill an idea. PROJECT DEFUND TYRANNY will be only ONE idea that will be unleashed. The Charter and Proclamation of the Rights of Man is the starting point. If you are going to talk the talk, you should walk the walk. The Charter is NOT a petition nor a plan for a new government. It is a demand that the government make good on the guarantees in the Constitution. If they cannot do that, it is our Right to withdraw from the social contract known as the Constitution. If you're not willing to support that, you are not willing to fight. The Charter is much like the Magna Carta or the Declaration of Independence. It IS a workable plan because, historically, it's the way it's always been done.

Swap in whoever is in power for Trumps name as you read read this article.

To resist Trump’s tyranny, just don’t comply

The origin of tyrannical power is irrelevant: whether by election, inheritance or force, if rulership is oppressive, it is tyrannical. And the way to beat it is deceptively simple: refuse to comply.

theconversation.com

@The Resister I think your idea about defunding the feds was shared by La Boetie:

"La Boétie reasoned that the rule of any government acting tyrannically would abruptly end as soon as its subjects withdrew their active support, for such power only comes from the "voluntary servitude" of its subjects. The tyrant has "nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you"."

 

[arakboss]

Swap in whoever is in power for Trumps name as you read read this article.

To resist Trump’s tyranny, just don’t comply

The origin of tyrannical power is irrelevant: whether by election, inheritance or force, if rulership is oppressive, it is tyrannical. And the way to beat it is deceptively simple: refuse to comply.

theconversation.com

@The Resister I think your idea about defunding the feds was shared by La Boetie:

"La Boétie reasoned that the rule of any government acting tyrannically would abruptly end as soon as its subjects withdrew their active support, for such power only comes from the "voluntary servitude" of its subjects. The tyrant has "nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you"."

We have seen movements by those who refused to pay taxes but they were scorned by their fellow citizens. I am not sure defunding the government is really possible these days since much of the govs spending money is generated out of thin air.

 

[The Resister]

No, I did not miss that part. I don't see it as a worthy or workable goal. If you have the political power to roll back 25% then why stop there? What are the grounds for capitulating on the remaining 75%? If you don't have the political power to roll back any then why set the bar so low?

Who came up with this Operation Resist Tyranny and who is implementing it? I see the Charter but what are the campaign details? I'd never heard of it before I read your earlier post.

I'm not sure why you're so touchy and judgmental. I expressed my opinion and asked you some questions about a project you brought up. If you and your allies can figure out how to Constitutionally roll back gun laws then I say more power to you in that endeavor.


Yes, which is exactly why I asked you questions.


How did I criticize you? By not sharing your opinion and having faith in ORT? Do you think you're above criticism?

As I said above, if you and your allies can figure out how to Constitutionally roll back gun laws then I say more power to you in that endeavor.

Your exact words were: " I don't see it as a worthy or workable goal." Negativity has destroyed many a good effort. If the goal would help you, then it would be better to be silent than negative. I'm not above criticism, but I posted it once and will do so again:

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." Proverbs 18 : 13

Had you spent some time with me in PM over this, you might be justified in your criticisms. You didn't hear the idea out; it cannot be posted on this site, so this part of the discussion is over.

 

[arakboss]

@The Resister you are going to have a tough time getting workers and others who depend on the government for their livelihood to stop supporting it. This includes, government employees, contract workers, military and all of those who depend on the government for benefits of one kind or another. Social Security, Welfare, Unemployment, and the list goes on and on. This is obviously why the governments of both parties are so eager to get people and companies dependent on income that is derived from government.

Many of us would like to see smaller government but that will never happen under either major party. Unless there is some large awakening and support of a libertarian party that believes in small government the status quo will continue to grow.

 

[The Resister]

Swap in whoever is in power for Trumps name as you read read this article.

To resist Trump’s tyranny, just don’t comply

The origin of tyrannical power is irrelevant: whether by election, inheritance or force, if rulership is oppressive, it is tyrannical. And the way to beat it is deceptively simple: refuse to comply.

theconversation.com

@The Resister I think your idea about defunding the feds was shared by La Boetie:

"La Boétie reasoned that the rule of any government acting tyrannically would abruptly end as soon as its subjects withdrew their active support, for such power only comes from the "voluntary servitude" of its subjects. The tyrant has "nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you"."

Both of those concepts are integrated into OPERATION RESIST TYRANNY. You'd have to PM me to discuss it in detail. Right now, what I've told you about the plan is 1) Sign the Charter 2) Boycott those who oppose unalienable Rights 3) Refuse to comply with unconstitutional laws and / or laws that infringe upon unalienable Rights 4) Exhaust all of your nonviolent legal and political avenues of redress 5) Refuse to support ANY law that increases the size, power and / or scope of government. That is just part of the way you wage a war to reclaim the Right to keep and bear Arms (among other Rights you are watching slip away).

In order to be successful, the program must be systematic and follow a path by enough people to make an impact. That impact won't be made by throngs of people, but by those who aren't B.S. artists looking to criticize those willing to work to actually make a difference. Yes, a lot of people have said SOME things that sound a little bit like what what you're reading now, but nobody has offered a multi-pronged plan that incorporates all the elements necessary for victory.

Know this: the critics hope we fail... that includes those who profess to be for gun Rights. They want to win on their terms. The problem, gun owners have been doing the same old, same old for years and losing. They are only experts on losing. Just saying.

 

[The Resister]

@The Resister you are going to have a tough time getting workers who depend on the government for their livelihood to stop supporting it. This includes, government employees, contract workers, military and all of those who depend on the government for benefits of one kind or another. Social Security, Welfare, Unemployment, and the list goes on and on. This is obviously why the governments of both parties are so eager to get people and companies dependent on income that is derived from government.

Many of us would like to see smaller government but that will never happen under either major party. Unless there is some large awakening and support of a libertarian party that believes in small government the status quo will continue to grow.

If that's the case, America should simply accept socialism, forget about their God given Liberties, give up their guns, and call it a day. So, you're telling me we should just put our hands in our pockets, look down at the ground, and say well you can't fight city hall? THAT'S your plan? Really?

Frederic Douglass was a former slave. He knew what it takes to effect a change in the status quo. I'd like to counter your ideology with his:

"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation are men who want crops without plowing up the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.

Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted. . ."

The Charter and Proclamation of the Rights of Man is NOT a petition nor a call for a new government. It is a demand. Support it, don't support it. It's your choice, but history proves that you have to have a demand and you have to be willing to struggle. In a day and age where the president is promising free money in the way of stimulus payments, Liberty is not something that interests the masses. But, real change never relies on the masses. Jesus had but 12 apostles and he changed the world - whether you believe in him or not. There were only 56 signatories to the Declaration of Independence. And on the other side of right and wrong, Hitler started out with a few guys sitting around a table in a pub. With a country no bigger than the size of Texas, he damn near took over the world. I'm not relying on a massive movement by Democrats. Relying on the masses and "democracy" is not a road to victory. What you need are dedicated and focused individuals.

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain

 

[The Resister]

Indeed. 2020 was the best darned chance for real change with what, 435 House Seats and 35 Senate Seats up for grabs. Best chance to throw the lot out and start anew but no...people would prefer to keep the same liars and charlatans in and just whine about it while doing nothing.

I am in the market for a few good men and women who want to do more than complain. If we are to protect the Right to keep and bear Arms (and our other Liberties as well), we need activists.

 

[The Resister]

Follow an unconstitutional order and keep my pay, pension, and benefits, or defy it and lose it all. That decision will be rather easy for a lot of people. I expecting people "employed by the government" to not follow unconstitutional government orders is wishful thinking.

And yet this country was founded by a few men that pledged their Lives, their Fortunes, and their Sacred Honor in defense of Liberty.

 

[The Resister]

We have seen movements by those who refused to pay taxes but they were scorned by their fellow citizens. I am not sure defunding the government is really possible these days since much of the govs spending money is generated of thin air.

You have witnessed "movements" that were focused on a single front.

 

[American123]

And yet this country was founded by a few men that pledged their Lives, their Fortunes, and their Sacred Honor in defense of Liberty.

I'm not disagreeing, that a small group of people can enact serious change. I'm just looking at the reality of the situation regarding "who is coming to take your guns."

There's a book about German Police in Poland that people should read regarding how "normal people" can get involved in behavior they otherwise never would have before.

 

[Member 52301]

That OLD LADY in the NOLA link on You Tube plus other NOLA links always bothered me a LOT!

There was NO reason why that old lady could not have stayed in her home, there was NO reason to knock her down and treat her like a piece of dirt and she had her gun in her hand the entire time.

She was NOT pointing it at any person and she did NOT THREATEN any NASTY, big, old, tough, macho-macho man.

She should have NEVER GONE TO HER DOOR or let them INSIDE of her home.

And if they BROKE INTO HER HOME... well... I better just shut up now.

Old Lady Cate

 

[billdeserthills]

I am in the market for a few good men and women who want to do more than complain. If we are to protect the Right to keep and bear Arms (and our other Liberties as well), we need activists.

I'm extremely interested in receiving your newsletter

 

[The Resister]

I'm not disagreeing, that a small group of people can enact serious change. I'm just looking at the reality of the situation regarding "who is coming to take your guns."

There's a book about German Police in Poland that people should read regarding how "normal people" can get involved in behavior they otherwise never would have before.

I nearly (though not intentionally) got close to derailing the thread. The reality of who is coming for your guns has been a learning experience for me over the course of my life.

SOME of the most prominent memories I have about WHO would take your weapons became apparent in the 1990s (during my experience as an activist). There was the siege on a church community in Waco, Texas that left 17 little children dead and that involved federal agencies and even DELTA Forces. There was an attack on the Weaver family at Ruby Ridge led by the FBI. Those of us who were active back in the day recall lesser known attacks by the LEO community on gun owners. There was the patriot, Gordon Kahl and the assassination of William Cooper (author of Behold a Pale Horse). In the 1990s there was the survey given at Twenty Nine Palms that asked military personnel if they would fire on American civilians if ordered to do so:

https://www.29palmssurvey.com/survey.html (See question #46)

The 1990s ended with a decent video entitled Police State 2000 put out by Alex Jones (before he became a shill) that examined the military exercises done in conjunction with foreign troops in a UN training exercise to do house to house search and seizures - weapons confiscations. All manner of laws, Executive Orders, etc. have been put into place to go after gun owners since. Some of the worst were the Lautenberg Amendment, so - called "Patriot Act," and bizarre classifications of firearms that attempt to circumvent the Second Amendment.

The locals will come to take your firearms the first time a neighbor or family member gets whizzed at you. Red Flag Laws and domestic violence (sic) statutes based on the Lautenberg Amendment deprive millions of their firearms each year. There is no due process in those kinds of laws nor are they realistic.

States have no problem outlawing your firearms as well. At least ten states are blatantly anti-gun so that most of the weapons in common use are illegal in 10 percent of the states in the U.S.

The feds have no problem with outlawing firearms, even knowingly enforcing unconstitutional laws to do so. Every branch can and is disarming Americans right now. Gun owners keep waiting for the big one - the military going door to door and taking weapons. When that happens, you will have waited too long to react.

 

[The Resister]

I'm extremely interested in receiving your newsletter

Nobody is doing one at the moment in connection with the Charter. It's being discussed on another forum; some organizers are planning a website; I was approached about doing an introductory video. Since it is not an organization, I'm not sure how the ideas will be implemented.

 

[arakboss]

I am hijacking my own thread to discuss this closely related topic. Assuming the authorities have a warrant or court order permitting the search for and seizure of some or all of your firearms and or firearm parts, how will you handle the search and seizure?

For this imaginary search and seizure scenerio assume that you have on the premises the following firearms and a firearms detection dog will be brought in to assist in the search.

An sks modified to fire full auto
A glock with a fun switch
A short barreled shotgun, unregistered.
Two ARs with bumpstocks
A short barreled rifle, unregistered.

For the record I don't own any of these illegal components or firearms nor do I own any currently illegal firearms.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Regarding "Just what will you do when...."

If your plan for any of these scenarios involves violence or illegal actions and or firearms...
It may be best if you don't go on the internet and post it.
Andy

 

[arakboss]

Regarding "Just what will you do when...."

If your plan for any of these scenarios involves violence or illegal actions and or firearms...
It may be best if you don't go on the internet and post it.
Andy

Peaceful and legal ways out of the jam would be ideal.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Something else to consider when posting about firearms ( or anything for that matter )....
It is far to easy to take the written word and "Spin it" , read into it / take it out of context.

Also worth noting :

Whatever you say and do with firearms in the public view , represents all firearm owners in many people's minds.

NWFA is a "Social Media" site....we get many visitors here.
What is posted here on the forum is not only one individual's thoughts...but can and will be seen as a reflection of NWFA and all members here.

Think about when someone makes the news for their actions...Their web history is often made public.
What you say here on the forum is out there...maybe forever.
Andy