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I thought he used that for practice BEFORE he let young boys suck his tongue….
Because they go with what's popular not what's the most practical.If safeties are such an ideal mechanism for SF guns then why do most LE agencies run sidearms that GENERALLY speaking do not have mechanical/external safeties?
You sure about that?Because they go with what's popular not what's the most practical.
Just my opinion but my guess is they go with what's both affordable and reliable. Glocks fit that bill pretty good, and why they are the most popular with civilians.You sure about that?
Legit question. I think it is mostly the Glock effect. Glock became the big player (65% of the market in 2017 per Glock) so SF guns without safeties are familiar. Departments do not always choose what is best. There are many considerations with cost being a significant factor (that they will rarely admit to). They have to think about holsters, weapons-mounted lights, holsters for guns with WML, cost of magazines (this just eliminated HK ). With limited training time, is it easier to teach someone to shoot with a basic SF gun? Sure. Shooting with is not the same as deploying. There is no minimum score (or any for that matter) for re-holstering, walking through ice plant in the dark, or other non-shooting areas when they are trying to get recruits to pass in the academy. Most recruits are NOT gun people now (compared to the old days when I was in the academy).If safeties are such an ideal mechanism for SF guns then why do most LE agencies run sidearms that GENERALLY speaking do not have mechanical/external safeties?
Yes, and cheap.Because they go with what's popular not what's the most practical.
Well standard military have safeties on all their sidearms. Whether it's the 1911, M9 or now the P320. The top tier guys who run Glocks etc. more than likely are running pistols without safeties.Just my opinion but my guess is they go with what's both affordable and reliable. Glocks fit that bill pretty good, and why they are the most popular with civilians.
I just don't think LE or Military is the deciding factor on "what's best" though. Ie safety and NDs. Cop's have their fair share as civilians.
I guess my question was more in regards to if NDs are such an issue. And if people are going to blame the tool rather than the operator…. Then wouldn't it make sense to "fix" the tool by mandating officers to carry a platform that has an external safety? I mean think of the communities safety………. (Heavy sarcasm).Legit question. I think it is mostly the Glock effect. Glock became the big player (65% of the market in 2017 per Glock) so SF guns without safeties are familiar. Departments do not always choose what is best. There are many considerations with cost being a significant factor (that they will rarely admit to). They have to think about holsters, weapons-mounted lights, holsters for guns with WML, cost of magazines (this just eliminated HK ). With limited training time, is it easier to teach someone to shoot with a basic SF gun? Sure. Shooting with is not the same as deploying. There is no minimum score (or any for that matter) for re-holstering, walking through ice plant in the dark, or other non-shooting areas when they are trying to get recruits to pass in the academy. Most recruits are NOT gun people now (compared to the old days when I was in the academy).
When DC police switched to Glocks in 1988, they averaged 10 NDs per year for 10 years. 19 of these resulted in officers shooting themselves or other officers. (Social media did not exist so this is forgotten news.) NYPD used to require heavy triggers in Glocks (i.e., the NY trigger) yet now they are exploring putting in lighter triggers so officers will shoot better. What could go wrong? Officer's hit ratio when shooting is about 1 in 5, or 80% misses.
Sometimes there is an influencer in the department's firearms unit...which can be good or bad. If they don't think they have the time (or are unfamiliar with) a certain platform than Glock (or other non-safety SF guns) are low hanging fruit. Some academies, from what I understand, included zero, zilch, nada, training with shotguns, yet new officers will often have one to use on their first day in patrol.
Note the military went the other direction and required safeties on their handguns, and for mass use, have for over 100 years. They went from SA, to DA/SA, to SF with safety. Also note we are not hearing about Sig M17 & M18s firing all by themselves, like we are 320s without safeties.
Just my thoughts.
And not Glock bashing either. I have a high level of respect for many Glock carriers here and in other places.
Yes, and cheap.
I think we are very much on the same page. First and foremost, safety training must be robust and never-ending. Finger discipline, and muzzle control (the first two that seem to go out the window) must be absolutes and stressed non-stop. This will fix most of the problems.guess my question was more in regards to if NDs are such an issue. And if people are going to blame the tool rather than the operator…. Then wouldn't it make sense to "fix" the tool by mandating officers to carry a platform that has an external safety? I mean think of the communities safety………. (Heavy sarcasm).
Personally I am a firm believer that it's a training/human issue and not a tool issue. No matter how many safeguards you put in place, require, enforce, etc. people will still find a way to f-ck it up.
Train under stress. Consequences are needed in training. Pain retains.
Well said.I think we are very much on the same page. First and foremost, safety training must be robust and never-ending. Finger discipline, and muzzle control (the first two that seem to go out the window) must be absolutes and stressed non-stop. This will fix most of the problems.
As you note, top tier folks are using Glocks and other "high performance" guns. But as a friend of mine used to say when we would go to a crash involving a teen driver in daddy's Porsche, BMW or other exotic..."What we have here is a high performance vehicle being driven by a low performance driver."
Agree with training under stress as well, but this is very difficult for most to do. Again, going back to the popular YouTube gun trainers, some say do push ups and run up and down the range to get your heart rate up. This is NOT stress. Competitions can induce some stress but some/many of us will get to the point where it is not really. Force on force with sims, good scenarios and role players comes close but it is spendy and not easily available for many.
I'm definitely not blaming the tool, I think of it more as accepting some of the limitations that may be present (for some shooters, not all) and considering there may be options that could improve safety in some common situations without sacrificing accuracy, power, or speed. DVC. I'm also not trying to convert (nor do they need it) SF / No Safety folks to the dark side. I have worked with countless newer shooters who were talked out of a gun with a manual safety at a gun shop, by a friend or relative even though they really wanted a gun with one but were persuaded by someone who was extremely ill-informed. Now they are carrying a SF gun with no round in the chamber because they are not comfortable (or not carrying at all). They admit with the extra layer of protection provided by a safety they would carry with a round chambered. A manual safety should NEVER be a crutch, but realistically, for some, it provides additional comfort.
Your input is most excellent!
Arrogance ?If safeties are such an ideal mechanism for SF guns then why do most LE agencies run sidearms that GENERALLY speaking do not have mechanical/external safeties?
Out of curiosity what difference does the holster make in regards to SF vs DA/SA unless you are concerned with it falling out during an altercation?I agree. DA/SA for carry guns strikes the sweet spot for me. Striker fired is fine in a level 3 duty holster.
I still am very curious about the Sig issues due to the drop safe issues and the design of the striker. I'm about 60/40 on if they are actually safe to carry and shoot.